Reviving old topic of carnivore and muscle cramps

(Robin) #1

Sorry guys, I know this has been discussed before, but jumping in one of the old threads get confusing. So… I want to start by asking @VirginiaEdie about her experience with nightly leg cramps as a carnivore. I had them when I was keto, but my nightly drink of magnesium and salt took care of them.

I’ve been carnivore now for about 8 months and they are suddenly back. Crazy severe leg and foot cramps every night. I have dropped most of my supplements from keto days. I still take a magnesium but in pill form, as opposed to the powder mag citrate that I mixed with water and salt. Thinking I need to add that back in. Or just more salt and water?

Any suggestions?

(Joey) #2

Sorry to hear about what sounds like a miserable development!

Can’t speak to the specific effects of carnivore on cramping (since I eat my fair share of green veggies with most nightly dinners) but both my wife and I have managed to nip muscle cramping in the bud with the Mg citrate in water solution - as you did previously.

You may have slowly but surely drawn down your Mg levels over the ensuing months to the point of cramping (and perhaps other symptoms you haven’t quite noticed yet).

I’d suggest you return to that old protocol ASAP to see if you get noticeable relief within a few days. Any particular reason you switched away previously?

(Robin) #3

Well… yes, there was a reason. I originally used the power to help with regularity and it seemed to help me sleep as well. My bathroom issues went away with carnivore. So I switched to a pill at night just as a sleep aid…tho I recently found that melatonin works well.

It’s also possible I need the extra water. So tonight I will go back to my old mag citrate with water and salt before bed. forget the pills. Thanks for your input. Fingers crossed.

(Joey) #4

Just curious re: melatonin. Come across any concerns about taking it regularly? I wonder about how it might affect one’s ability to produce the body’s own melatonin over time.

(Robin) #5

Hmmm… no clue. I have been feeling lately likeI don’t need the extra boost to go to sleep, but I take it out of habit and hedging my bets.
I, drinking my old salty Mag citrate water as I type this. And sending happy messages to my body…. CHILL OUT!!! Lol

(Stickin' with mammoth) #6

Welcome to my world. As I mentioned before, I’ve been dealing with screaming levels of cramping every day and night for several years on carnivore and it’s only gotten worse.

I’m up to 3000 - 5000 mg of magnesium a day and I have to plan my whole life around the bathroom. The only thing that stops the cramping altogether is carbs which cause instant weight gain. If there’s a purgatory, I could be a tour guide.

(Allie) #7

It’s been discussed on numerous podcasts I listen to and is advised against using regularly for this exact reason. Apparently it’s effectively a hormone so should only be used very sparingly and at an extremely low dose. Maybe this is why it’s illegal here in the UK.

(Rebecca ) #8

That sounds painful!
You could try magnesium malate (magnesium bonded with malic acid). That form is more beneficial for muscles.

#9

Ouch. My keto cramps never come if I eat enough meat but it seems it’s not enough for everyone and maybe it won’t be enough even for me later? I never really supplemented Mg, just took a pill (250mg) when I had cramps and it was once a month or something. IDK what it says about my Mg levels but when I wondered how much magnesium I get from my food, it was always low, on vegetarian keto (without green leaves, ew, I don’t eat those. I tried and just can’t) and carnivore-ish alike. I think. I will check it again.
I don’t even know what the Mg need does on carnivore but I guess it must be lower as my very reliable keto cramps went away…? Or this thing is individual too?

I can’t help, sorry, just wrote my experiences. I would just take some pills as I always do when I get cramps (it’s always lack of magnesium for me, it seems. or if it’s sodium, I still don’t wanna eat more than I feel like though I could do it if that would be the only way).

(Robin) #10

Poor you! I didn’t know it was still going on. Oh man… years!! I can’t imagine. Last night I went back to my big glass of water with mg citrate and lots of salt right before bed. No cramps last night. Hallelujah.

I’ll be curious about my stools today, as I remember the daily “runs”. but after a lifetime of constipation from carbs, I was ok with the diarrhea… first time I ever felt cleaned out… without a colonoscopy appointment. Lol

When I took my water, mg, salt drink for a long period of time, I was able to find my happy medium dosage. But I think if I had to choose between diarrhea and nightly monster leg/foot cramps, I’d go for the emergency trips to the bathroom.

But here’s a quandary… now that I am carnivore, I poop very seldom… just not much is being wasted. Not constipated, just not much there. Someone on here said ‘ Less crap in, less crap out”. I guess that makes sense because our bodies utilize most of the meat.

I am obviously going to keep up the nightly mg cocktails, but curious what will happen when there’s not much substance in my bowels? Stay tuned to this channel.

(Robin) #11

Yeah, I believe I should stop the melatonin. I think I am in a regular enough natural cycle of sleep now to give it up. Thanks for the heads up.

(Robin) #12

Allie, thanks for this. I’m not usually one to research beyond my n=1 experience. But when it comes to sleep (and poop :face_with_raised_eyebrow:) I will do the work to learn.

There is a lot of good info in both of these. Dropping the melatonin right now.

(Robin) #13

wow…. There is a LOT of good topics on this site! I have some listening/watching to do. Although I am more of a reader… did you read his book? does it cover all the areas offed in the videos?

#14

Glad you found a solution.

If you wanted to test out the magnesium theory, you could try drinking citrate+salt+water for a few nights - and if you do have bathroom problems, then try salt+water and see if the magnesium is the crucial factor.

You already said that you’re consuming magnesium tablets. There’s lots of magnesium types out there, some which don’t have such an effect on bathroom visits (but I think some of this can be personal so it might need some experimentation).

If the dose between the tablets and the citrate solution is the same, maybe the tablet version is not being absorbed as effectively. Citrate is apparently well absorbed by the body - maybe another form of magnesium would work, but might need to be a higher dose?

(Robin) #15

I didn’t take the pills last night and probably won’t again, since this works. So far, I am not having emergency runs to the bathroom. I’m guessing it’s the difference between keto when I first used it, and being carnivore now. Much less in my system to be expelled. We shall see. But a night uninterrupted by cramps was heaven. I think I woke up a couple times just to appreciate it. Lol
Thanks again.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #16

Dr. Phinney recommends a brand called Slow-Mag, which is a timed-release version. It apparently has less of an effect on the bowel, because it’s absorbed more slowly.

#17

If it works, and continues to work, I wouldn’t change it!

(Bob M) #18

Only problem with slow-mag is that it has calcium. Or at least one of their versions does. Calcium is tricky.

#19

So we talk about poop too? Fine :slight_smile:
Sometimes I wonder about this smaller frequency on carnivore thing as I didn’t notice it. It doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, I am bad with noticing such frequent tiny details, my memory works in different ways. But yeah I had multiple ones per day and it’s once per day on carnivore I think…? But it never ever skips a day. I wonder why. Personal stuff (my frequency is higher than average on every woe)? Actual food choices? It can’t be the mere food amount as I eat pretty normal amounts compared to others… I just eat more eggs :smiley:
I am sure there is less waste but my frequency doesn’t care. I can do it often and tiny amounts, no problem.
Btw I often wondered about this apparent common thing of people that they go in the morning. Is it the normal thing? As I never ever do that. I go some time after my meal so in the evening. Unless very much coffee and other conditions meet but they almost never do. I imagine eating A TON the previous day would “help”. So… The normal thing is the food went the course and then comes the urge while I have a buffer so food in triggers waste out?

Carbs makes my stool softer, constipation never was my problems just like I never get the D without extreme circumstances (like the time when I didn’t notice that my Mg pill that I used more than one from as I had a very stubborn cramps that one time contained Mg-oxid too. I just looked at the first mg-something in the ingredients list on my busy shopping day. I still didn’t need to go to the bathroom more frequently, it only affected the softness. And maltitol, once. Not like I ate it many times but it only was bad in the first time and I didn’t even had much! still not full blown D but I hated the feeling, it was similar to the Mg-oxid case. Food, well that can’t do this or I probably need some insanely wild day).

(Allie) #20

@robintemplin he’s amazing. I listen to every show and have one of his books but not the other yet. Books are very easy to read and ful of great info.