Resistant Starch

(Chris) #1

Just heard about this. Is it true I can eat cold potatoes and still stay in ketosis? How does this work?

What the
(Darlene Horsley) #2

I think it is raw potatoes. Iā€™m sure others with more knowledge than myself will answer shortly.

(Todd Allen) #3

You can eat pure sugar and stay in ketosis - so long as you donā€™t eat too much.

Resistant starch is slower digesting so it wonā€™t spike your blood sugar as strongly for a given dose. But you can still get too much. Iā€™ve not heard of anyone who counts grams of carbohydrates making an adjustment for lower glycemic carbohydrates.

#4

From what I know of resistant starch itā€™s not that itā€™s slower digesting; itā€™s actually non-digestible. Our gut bugs have a field day with it, but it shouldnā€™t change our carb count at all.

BUT @Gorilazinho, you have to check the carb content of cooked/cooled potatoes. Theyā€™re a common and popular source of resistant starch, but they might (probably?) still have some digestible carbs.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #5

The only time Iā€™m interested in eating cold potatoes is when my carb addiction has taken over, and I am in the middle of a binge.

(Todd Allen) #6

My mistake, you are right the resistant portion is what is not digestible in the small intestine but is digested through fermentation in the large intestine. But according to this link http://freetheanimal.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Resistant-Starch-in-Foods.pdf the amount of resistant starch in 100 g of boiled and cooled potatoes is 3.2 g. The remaining grams of starch will hit your blood sugar a little slower but it would still be a poor choice for a keto diet unless the portion size is kept very small.

#7

I just tested potato starch on my blood glucose levels
here is a shocking true

#8

There are a few other threads on the forum about resistant starch if you use the search bar.

First off, RS feeds the good bacteria in the gut, and these bacteria produce BUTYRATE (different from beta-hydroxybutyrate compound ketones that the brain makes) in much much higher concentrations than you get from eating butter. Butyrate has been shown to stimulate several anti-inflammatory and neuropeptide functions in the lower part of the intestinal tract. Iā€™m not sure what the difference between butyrate and butyric acid and beta-hydroxybutyrate are, but whatā€™s fascinating is that the good colon bacteria produce way more butyrate than your brain makes when fed butter. RS helps butyrate production which then has neurological benefits.

Second, there are 4 kinds of resistant starches - and lots has been explored about them by Dr. Grace Liu, Norm Robillard PhD, and others looking at GERD issues and excess fermentation stemming from damage done by years on the SAD diet - as well as very extended zero carb/carnivore dietary practices (like for 7+ years) which can apparently create some serious microbiome imbalances. There is an argument that the good bacteria in the gut need to be fed with small amounts of fibers/starches at intervals of a few seasons or more. In fact, the actual Inuit peoples in the Arctic (many different tribes), who are often used as monolithic ā€˜proofā€™ of the modern constructed longterm zero carb lifestyle, prized and enjoyed tubers and grasses and seaweed when gathered/traded though their primary food was raw organs and fat!

Also, pre-fermented foods (fermented dairy, birds, eggs, veggies, clotted bovine blood, kombucha) were microbiome enhancing for certain indigenous and aboriginal peoples. Fermented foods provide 10 TRILLION good gut microbes, compared to the fanciest probiotic supplements for saleā€¦

Third, the non-metabolically deranged and/or athletic crowd is a different keto lifestyle than those with heavy duty food addictions and derangement.
What can be one personā€™s recipe for a nice natural mood enhancer & energy booster (resistant starch) can be anotherā€™s poison. Some of us can keep a supply of cooked rice or potato in the fridge for 7-10 days - others cannot do anything but eat the whole lot w/ butter one night. Important to keep that in mind.

I use a low GI rice (basmati) chilled and then fried - just a tablespoon or two. Interestingly, resistant starches in minimal/medicinal applications, have an anti-depressant effect while also countering excess fermentation in the gut.

This presentation by Dr. Liu helped inspire my studies:

https://www.enduranceplanet.com/dr-grace-liu-how-to-build-a-warrior-gut-common-and-solvable-gut-issues-in-athletes-and-more/

#9

of course they prized things that were very scare and hard to obtain.

and this is a good time to remind everyone there is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate, microbiome be damned. you can safely never eat a single gram of carbohydrate in your entire life and be perfectly healthy.

this microbiome stuff is an absolute farce and puts the cart before the horse. your biome responds to what you eat, it makes no requirement of you to eat anything for its sake.

#10

Iā€™m not a fan of longterm ZC as an extended 7+ years long woe in terms of how it has nothing to do with actual native & aboriginal food traditions - I find it more ideological than based in the realities of diverse ancient cultures.

There are many points of view on this here forum obviously, itā€™s a place for coexistence. I love the inter-disciplinary approaches to understanding most everything, personally.

Re the microbiome, most of us in industrial culture have had our biological processes messed up since infancy - and thereā€™s actually a lot of science validating how insanely far away industrial culture is from our earth-based and mammalian needs on a primal health level related to our stone age nervous systems and the fact that the GI tract has a ton of neurons - in fact the enteric nervous system has recently been named the ā€œsecond brainā€!

In recent years the pre and perinatal facts about mother-child microbiolme transmission via non-surgical birth related to immunity & health in early childhood has gained a lot of ground. Itā€™s to the point where hospitals are now incorporating protocols for transferring maternal bacteria to babies who are surgically extracted and who miss out on the microbiome benefits of mammalian birth. In addition, bacteria transferred via breastfeeding is also very beneficial (besides the fact that artificial infant formulas sold by the food industry are horrifically corn syrup and soy based).

Most of us have been very shortchanged and in the U.S. well over 13 million children are on at least one psychotropic prescription with many on two. Anti-depressant medications along with many other meds are ā€˜the normā€™ for many teens and adults.

Biology matters, very much. All pre-industrial cultures honored biological mothers and the earth as our first mother, but industrial culture is still just guessing at it and seeking evidence of it -

#11

Here is exactly what happens to resistant starch when we boil it.

#12

Weā€™re not supposed to boil RS - the protocol I follow is a small bit of chilled precooked rice that I refry in delicious fat, a few times a week. But I didnā€™t embark on it till I felt 100% fat adapted around month 6, because I wasnā€™t sure if I could restrain myself from bingeing on fried rice!

#13

Well thatā€™s what starch created for.
I just wanted to show a difference in blood glucose readings after

  1. raw potato starch
  2. boiled one

So people including myself will know what to expect from this food.

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #14

This thread is old. But the two videos of @ketorevo are very interesting: while raw potato starch barely elevates glucose, boiled potato starch increases glucose a lot.

What happens if the boiled potato starch is left to cool? Unfortunately, I do not own any glucose meter.

In the youtube comments, somebody asks the same question, and the owner of the channel says that it should not matter, cold or hot, once it has been heated. But it is true that at least for potatoes and rice, the idea is that after being heated, if left cold again, the amount of resistant starch increases.

I am interested in knowing this, since I would like to add raw potato starch to my chaffles. Would it be OK if I just left my chaffles to become cold?

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #15

Hello @atomicspacebunny do you have any answer to my question, if raw potato starch keeps the resistant starch, once cooked and later becomes cold?

I have read that this process of heating and cooling works well for potatoes, rice and pasta. But I have read in one place that it could completely fail with raw potato starch. Do you have any opinion on this issue?

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #16

It seems the answer is no, unfortunately:

(Bunny) #17

If your dealing with a real potato it is the water boiling out the digestible sugar, so each time it is de-concentrated; cooked then cooled it becomes more resistant to digestion? I boil and cool (in new water every time) at least 4 times before eating the potato whole. Then eat cold with salt.

Your literally fasting extensively (without feeling like your starving to death) and feeding your butyrate or fatty acid producing gut microbes at the same-time and healing metabolic dysregulation e.g. catabolizing the visceral fat around the pancreas and liver (the root cause of diabetes).

footnotes:

[1] Warning: rabbit holes ahead :hole::rabbit2::rabbit2::rabbit2: ā€œā€¦Extreme caloric restrction is part of it. Another part is limiting the intake of fat which does (at least) two things. They are both rather complicated and Iā€™m less than good at trying to explain them.

  1. In the absence of fat the pancreas makes less insulin.
  2. Without bile feedback from intestines to liver, there is less hepatic glycogen storage in the absence of insulin.
  3. Glucose from starch in a fiber matrix, without fructose, acts differently from sugars. ā€¦More

[2] ā€œā€¦So, today I learned that a diet devoid of fat and super hypocaloric (like the Pritikin potato diet) can indeed produce ketones if insulin is low enough and bile is not released. Why bile? Because when it is reabsorbed in the intestines it stimulates hepatic glycogen storage. No bile, less glycogen. Combine that with inadequate calories and the glucose will go preferentailly to muscle. No liver glycogen, ketone production switched to ā€œonā€ position. ā€¦ā€ ā€¦More

[3]

image
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Source: On the Relationship between the Formation of Bile and Glycogen in the Liver of Rabbit. Year of paper 1927?

(Doing a Mediterranean Keto) #18

And what about raw potato starch? Can it be heated and cooled, while preserving the resistant starch? (I am thinking in adding raw potato starch to my chaffle)

Or is the resistant starch lost, once the raw potato starch is heated?

(Jane Srygley) #19

Thatā€™s interesting. Makes me think I should get green plantains and maybe cut them up and freeze them just to have a little every dayā€¦ but cold is one thingā€¦ I wonder if frozen would be an issue.

(Bunny) #20

Any kind of resistant starch will work fine as long as the amylase in your saliva or pancreatic enzymes canā€™t break it down.

Here is a very very very important TIP in the form of a question:

ā€œI tried resistant starch and it does not work?[1]ā€

The real problem?

Most If not all probiotics you buy at the health food store are for digesting animal fats and protein not plants thatā€™s why you get gas (flatulence and indigestion) when you eat plants. i.e. you lack the necessary enzymes to break them down?

That is why you need soil based probiotics occasionally to seed (does not get destroyed by digestion or other microbes) butyrate producing bacteria in the lower colon and then it starts working over a period of time (really well by the way) and you will see it in your blood sugars post meal and pre-meal.

footnotes:

[1] RESISTANT STARCH INGESTION HAS NO EFFECT ON KETOSIS BUT BLOOD GLUCOSE BLUNTING EFFECTS ARE HIGHEST IN A NORMAL DIET