The definition of a low-carb diet is any diet below 45% carbs. No conclusions can be drawn from this study about a ketogenic diet because most of the low-carb diets it includes are not ketogenic. Do you believe that a diet with 40% carbs will have the benefits of one that is 5% carbs?
Research just out suggests low carb is bad?
BeavertonGarry
(Garry (Canada))
#22
I donât see Doctors often. Thus the 5 year span between tests below. (BTW⊠Iâm amazed at the similarities of the tests considering the drastic dietary change and timespan)
I dug up my fasted blood results from 2013 at 200ish lbs eating typical amount of sad carbs, little sat fats, and mod protein⊠Below 2013 is my recent 2018 results at 173lbs following an under 50 net carbs, 30+% saturated fat WOE for the last 1 year.
I donât care what argument these journalists/nutrition idiots offer⊠Iâm better off today than 5 years ago. So for me, the proof is in the pudding below. (low-carb of course!)
2013 44yr 5â6" 200lb (hba1c 5.4)
2018 49yr 5â6" 173lb (hba1c 5.4)
Nobody can dispute the facts Iâve posted regarding LCHF WOE improving my lipid profile and general well being.
margot17
#23
Who talked about weight loss?
The names you mentioned are everything but unbiased.
They may think they have their own good reasons to be in keto. There are as many others, scientists and alike, who may think they have very good reasons to do the opposite. So I wouldnât base my own decisions on what others do or say.
Keto_Tom
#24
There are no conclusive long-term studies into this, we just have to accept that. Even in the people eating low-carb high-fat over the past 25 years plus, we donât know if they were ketogenic (likely not) and were likely consuming a much higher amount of vegetable fats, omega six and trans fats as the risks werenât nearly as well-known.
So many factors could have confounded this, you just have to focus on the diet that works for you and gives you the best results according to the most useful tests we know of today.
joziel
#25
Well⊠we were talking about weight-loss because I originally said âIâm an average person without metabolic syndrome, eating paleo/keto for long term health and longevity - not weight lossâ.
And you said âThen youâre one of those people who would benefit from keeping your heads up and staying unbiased.â
Which was a response to my statement about weight-loss. And seems to suggest that because I donât need to lose weight, I should be more questioning of the pro-keto evidence. But⊠whatever.
You may not base your decisions on what others do or say, but I will always do so and the vast majority of people here, do also - or else we wouldnât even be having this conversation. Unless we are actually research scientists who specialise in metabolism, and are directly in contact with the data, it is hard to base our decisions on food on anything other than what other people say and do⊠Itâs only a matter of which people.
KetoWhitney
(Whitney)
#26
Something else I noticed about this studyâŠin addition to calling anyone under 30% âlow carbâ and so having no data on who may have actually been in ketosis, they also donât control for people with metabolic disorder. While the lowest low-carb/high animal fat group may have had reduced life expectancy, it doesnât control for the fact that they may have been eating low carb to address things like obesity, diabetes, and heart disease.
Anyway, Iâm glad to see this âstudyâ is being discussed here. My husband (who is not Keto) showed it to me this morning and suggested that I should be focusing on reducing animal-based fats in favor of the unsaturated plant-based fats. I pointed out that my keto diet already has olive oil, coconut oil, nuts, seeds, and avocado, in addition to things like heavy cream, fatty meats, and cheese, so it is pretty balanced.
Wishbone
#27
The Guardian, is a Marxist anti meat rag. I wouldnât even use that paper to wrap trash
margot17
#28
Yeah well just listen to the arguments of all fronts then so youâre a little more autonomous in your choices. And above all, take the Kraft test, to know if it is ACTUALLY TRUE that your body canât handle carbs.
When talking of metabolic syndrome I just assume one just talks of insulin.
Bellyman
(Brian)
#29
I donât consider this study to have enough data to even be meaningful.
If I wanted to determine the weather in an area, Iâd want more than a snapshot at the beginning, a snapshot at 6 months, and a survey to ask people how they like the weather.
welshie
#30
âResearchers who pooled the results of eight large studies have found that eating a moderate amount of carbohydrates is best for a healthy lifespan. Less than 40% or more than 70% of calories from carbohydrates carried a higher risk of mortality.â
I canât stop laughing at this.
Yes, letâs pool the results of multiple multivariate analyses, and come to the conclusion we see fit. Iâm sorry, but anyone who understands the scientific method and basic mathematics would understand this is a load of hyperbole.
If one study is done under one set of conditions, and another under another, and these variables are taken into account in two, but not the other six, and then another makes âxâ assumptions whereas the other 7 make âyâ assumptions, nevermind the models used, if any, then how the heck can they factor all of that in and come to any sort of logical conclusion and weight everything appropriately?
Once again, more politically motivated pseudo scientific crap pushed by people who either are purposefully pushing an agenda or are a perfect example of the sorry state of education in the western world.
KetoWhitney
(Whitney)
#31
Another study was posted on KetigenicForums some time last month, but it is relevant here too. This other study (linked below) showsthat people eating full fat dairy (one source of animal-based fats) have better outcomes in terms of stroke/heart disease. Researchers âfound no significant link between dairy fats and cause of death or, more specifically, heart disease and stroke â two of the countryâs biggest killers often associated with a diet high in saturated fat. In fact, certain types of dairy fat may help guard against having a severe stroke, the researchers reportedâŠThe study evaluated how multiple biomarkers of fatty acid present in dairy fat related to heart disease and all-cause mortality over a 22-year period. This measurement methodology, as opposed to the more commonly used self-reported consumption, gave greater and more objective insight into the impact of long-term exposure to these fatty acids, according to the reportâŠNone of the fatty acid types were significantly associated with total mortality. In fact one type was linked to lower cardiovascular disease deaths. People with higher fatty acid levels, suggesting higher consumption of whole-fat dairy products, had a 42 percent lower risk of dying from stroke.â
Description of study: https://www.uth.edu/media/story.htm?id=1692785a-5886-46e8-8186-230d71b834ac
Nene
(Martha Mac)
#32
Short answer. Itâs a self report, correlational study - no causal inferences can be drawn from such a study. In other words - KCKO.
Nimitta
(Nimitta)
#33
as others have said, and a few points Iâve added:
- self-report with food frequency questionnaires is not a reliable method
- itâs correlational, which cannot demonstrate causality
- itâs not possible to know why people chose different diets. it could be that obese people (or those with diabeses, heart disease, etc.) are more likely to go low carb, while those who are healthy & normal weight continue with the cultural norm of higher carbs. If so, then a higher death rate is not because of low carb diet, but because of the underlying illness.
- Itâs impossible to know how much consistency and adherence to the low carb diet.
- what are the sources of carbohydrates? is it a low carb or processed carb issue?
- This paper selective cites papers that support its apparent biases, not mentioning studies that conflict with its results. Fishy.
collaroygal
(KCKO, KCFO đ„„)
#34
^^^ This and as usual, follow the money, in this case, the publishing company behind Lancet. Lancet is considered one of the top research journals but dig a little deeper, and it all goes back to money.
PaulL
(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?)
#35
As I posted in the other thread, one of the authors of this study is Walter Willett, who along with Frederick Stare, his boss at the Harvard School of Public Health, is named in sugar industry memos as having taken payments to write articles disparaging saturated fat, so as to take the focus off the deleterious effects of sugar. Sugar is âGenerally Recognized as Safeâ by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration because of their efforts.
charlie3
(charlie3)
#37
We listen to researchers and medical practioners who work with ultra low carb (keto) and have to take what they say on faith to some degree but we do have our own bio markers to strengthen their arguments. In the past 5 months my blood pressure declined 40+ points to ânormalâ. I give the credit to exercise but clearly keto did not interfere and quite possibly it contributed. 40 points is a lot and Iâm not done. How about in the 90âs? I like my 20 net carbs diet and dramatically fewer meal times even if health impacts turned out to be neutral.
What civilization desparately needs is a real time non invasive way to read out as many bio markers as possible so there is plenty of warning about problems and real time reinforcement for responding effectively. May be thatâs what it will take to make us health concious. Abolishing Medicaid or severely limiting what it covers might have a similar response. My insurance doesnât cover sickness per say. It covers unhealthy living.
Navigator
(Tony Phillips)
#38
a repost of my reply to a different threatâŠ
I have not read all of the comments on the OP, so forgive me if a similar reply has already been published. I just finished reading the âstudyâ which by the authors own admissions, ârepresents observational data and is not a clinical trialâ. I have no problem with the study in general. However, it must be noted that what the study reveals is already known among many of us on a ketogenic diet. That is, if you consume a high fat, high protein diet apart of a nutritional state of ketosis you may be doing more harm that good. Even if you are âcuttingâ carbs you may not be doing yourself any favors. If you are not a fat burner, you are a fat storer. That just is not going to be a good thing.
All of us know people who seem to defy the metabolic âderangementâ that most of here suffer from. They seem to eat whatever they choose and live long and healthy lives. Well, this study is really a study of those individuals compared to us, the metabolically deranged. Ugh, yes those genetic freaks will live longer! I could have told you that! You see, they removed the data from this study from anyone who developed metabolic syndrome. So basically you have those who eat low carb and those who eat whatever, oh and a few who basically eat nothing but carbs. Also, you have to wonder if sampling the population of such a study just a couple of times in yesâŠ25 years! is sufficient. But if it is, so what, again we already know there are people who can eat whatever they want, get no diabetes, no hypertension and have good cholesterol levels. For those of us on Keto, most of our concern is metabolic disorder. For me it was pre-diabetes, pre-hypertension and yes pre-high cholesterol. All of which we headed sharply in the wrong direction. Keto has reversed all of that. So yes, my wife who looks half her age, has perfect health markers will live longer than I will (4.1 years according to this study). At least she wonât have to watch me give myself insulin, or watch me eat myself into a early death. Yeah, Iâll drop dead someday. Apparently sooner than she will. But for now, we are living life more abundantly than ever.