Refeeds/ Recarbs Yes/No?

(Rob Grantham) #21

It’s as if somehow cortisol is kicking in to bring my blood sugar back within range

(Rob Grantham) #22

Paul I think there is some truth in the comparison you’re making… I mean addiction is addiction… having said that some people (not myself) have been able to work things out in moderation… being an all or nothing person myself I tend to err on the side of caution and go for nothing

(Ken) #23

At 14% body fat I’ d say negative metabolic effects are very likely. You should consider one of two strategies initially. First, you could eat carbs for a week or two, then go back to eating them on the Weekend. Or, you could go for a full 36 hour glycogen recompensation… That’s a lot of carbs, and if you haven’t been eating them will play hell with your GI tract. However, it is typically what folks training heavily do when following a Cyclical Ketogenic Diet. Both work, I’ve been doing variations for nearly two decades.

(Rob Grantham) #24

Hi Ken

Thanks for the input. Could you clarify what you mean with metabolic symptoms? It feels like I run out of fuel even as a fat burner.

There was a calculator which Richard posted on here to work out how much energy you could draw from fat. I’m sure now that I’m at the leanest I have ever been. So there must be some kind of limit as to how much energy the body can utilise from fat/hour…

I feel like my appetite has increased a lot which would indicate my body can’t draw much from fat supplies and relies on fat from diet. If I am undershooting dietary fat surely my body will be initiating gluconeogenesis to get energy from lean tissue. In the process raising cortisol…

What do you think? Have you had experience with this?

(Ken) #25

Sure, your symptoms are fairly consistent with what bodybuilders call a Starvation Response. I’ve experienced it several times over.the years. It’s a concept Keto noobs often have a hard time grasping. It took me a while also, resulting in a one year stall. It’s easy to overcome, but since nutrition is an adaptive process it doesn’t’t happen overnight. Since it’s basically ignored on this board I suggest you go to the Keto subform on Bodybuilding.com and check out the protocols for both CKD and TKD. That forum has been around for nearly 20 years now and is well versed on the science of the metabolic effects of Lipolysis.

(Rob Grantham) #26

Thanks for the advice I will check it out

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #27

What would those be? I’m not aware of experiencing any. That may be partly why I find the whole notion of returning to eating carbohydrate strange.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #28

That would indicate that you are still quite insulin resistant, no? In that case, wouldn’t the logical response be to eat less carbohydrate, rather than more?

#29

How low are they? Is there a big difference between pre & post prandial numbers? What sort of blood sugar levels were you seeing before you started keto?

(Rob Grantham) #30

I can’t eat any lower without going carni some days I don’t even have 10g. I very much doubt this is insulin resistance I’ve been eating low carb for 8 years and ketounder 20 g for the last 6 months. Unless my metabolism is completely destroyed forever. But i dont believ it is. When I was eating carbs my a1c was at4.8 not sure if this indicates insulin resistance

(Rob Grantham) #31

Not a big difference in fact it’s more about the way I feel rather than the numbers.I’m getting a strong hunger response like I’m starving and can’t eat enough. My body is lean I have very little in the way of fat. I’m not single digit yet obviously but it feels like I have very little in fat savings

(Rob Grantham) #32

But Paul isn’t this dependant upon how lmuch body fat you have left. Obviously with lower body fat you have less to draw upon. Fasting or keto is great so long as you have sufficient fat to burn. Does it not become more difficult/uncomfortable as your fat levels lower?

#33

If you’re used to running high it could just be that your body is not yet used to the lower (but perfectly normal) numbers - AKA a false low? If you feed false lows with carbs you will end up back on the rollercoaster of high/low. It could also have absolutely nothing to do with blood sugars. How often/at what intervals are you testing?

(Rob Grantham) #34

I usually (when I do test) test slightly lower at 1 hour but never less than 70-80

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #35

I believe thin people do have more trouble with fasting, yes, but I thought that the issue was just maintaining a regular ketogenic diet over the long term. Fasting can be part of a ketogenic way of eating, but it is by no means essential.

While it is true that in the beginning stages of a ketogenic way of eating, people who have excess stored fat to shed eat less than they need to meet their daily energy expenditure, if they eat to satiety, because their body will automatically make up the different out of the fat store, but as the excess fat diminishes, their appetite gradually rises until, by continuing to eat to satiety, they have automatically increased their food intake until it provides all their daily energy needs. At no point in the process, as I understand Dr. Phinney’s explanation, is it ever necessary to set a caloric goal for oneself; the body takes care of that by regulating the appetite hormones, ghrelin (hunger) and leptin (satiation).

(Rob Grantham) #36

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/uploads/default/original/3X/1/8/18e1a66344a8a0245c2cd681ef95d0e1801ec170.jpeg just wanted to post a pic to show really not much fat left

(Rob Grantham) #37

Probably why I feel like my appetite has gone through the roof. I’m just following these signals at the moment and eating fat & protein 4/5 times a day.

#38

How much have you lost?

(Rob Grantham) #39

30kg was 106 now 76kg

#40

Little wonder your body is fighting back! Have you tried to ride out the 3 hour post prandial spike in hunger to see how long it lasts? If your blood sugar is low then your liver should kick in & give you the boost you need.