Hi, I joined last week and have been avidly reading since then. I have been a yo-yo dieter for over 30 years and now find myself with over 140lb to lose. I started keto 2 weeks ago, lost 14lb in my first week and feel amazing e energy and mental clarity wise. I am going to try to focus mainly on NSV from now and try to be self controlled enough to only weigh myself fortnightly, then monthly once I know I’m getting It ‘right’…
My question is about weight set points with keto, does anyone have experience with (or could point me to any information) maintaining a lower set point with keto. Does fat adaptation and/or ketosis serve to bypass the body’s drive to push weight back up to the previous higher set point?
Looks like you’re off to a great start. I think fasting once fat adapted can help reset your set point… I’m not sure but it might be a good thing to research. Hopefully someone else has a better answer. Come to think of it I should research that too.
From reading about the keto experiences in this forum, I’d say for most there may be wide fluctuations day by day, but while in ketosis whatever set-weight has been achieved doesn’t tend to snap back. Now, if you left the keto state a snap back would likely to happen instead.
A frequent phenomenon is that of very long plateaus at a set-weight. To break through those plateaus most recur to EF, with various degrees of success. In long term some witness gaining some of the weight back and it’s not too clear why, but I’d say most keep it low for good.
In an interview to prof. Longo by Dr. Mercola it was mentioned that, because in keto state insulin is low but the caloric intake is normal, there is a lot of glucose in the system due to uninterrupted glycogenesis by the liver (only a higher level of insulin or a drop of caloric intake would shut that down). This may be a reason for those plateaus and a reason why EF are helpful. It’s actually a reason of concern as I know high glucose in the system is not a good thing, ever.
I actually thought until now that the protein intake kept insulin a little too high to positively affect the IR, and that was the reason why EF was necessary, so I am a bit confused at that tidbit.
Our bodies are amazing!
When I began keto, I lost 20 lbs the first month, this was in June… Now I lose 5 lbs a month despite my indulging in “promote foods”…
I have about 50 lbs to go and figure it will take a year!
In this time, I am training myself to eat and exercise in a way I can maintain for life!
(I love this subject, Natasha.) There’s still a lot we don’t know about “weight set point,” and quite a few theories. One thing for sure - hormonal regulation and counter-regulation are involved heavily. For many people, better hormonal regulation results from eating ketogenically and becoming fat-adapted.
I think the more insulin-resistant one is, and the more progress one then makes on that, then the more one will lower their ‘set point,’ all other things being equal. A high enough insulin level and the body is essentially in fat-storage mode (rather than fat-burning mode) - if ever a thing would hold up or increase a weight set point, that would be it. There’s still a lot of individual variation, i.e. getting to a certain figure for insulin level won’t mean the same thing for all people.
For those of us who are fat-adapted, and with a lot of body fat, I think that the caloric intake is less important - we can burn plenty of our own fat to make glucose. Agreed that the insulin level will still affect where the blood sugar ends up, but uninterrupted glycogenesis need not mean “a lot of glucose in the system,” unless insulin resistance is pretty severe - and I think the body would be trying to make just enough glucose and no more.
In that interview you mentioned, insulin being low sounds like it was a premise, so if the comment was general about that much glucose, then it just sounds odd to me. Totally agree that extended fasting may help with weight loss stalls - insulin tends to decline for quite a few days during fasting.
Eating ketogenically or not makes a truly enormous difference, there.
There’s an excellent video: Dr Benjamin Bikman – Insulin vs Glucagon: The relevance of dietary protein.
16 minutes in, he talks about people being fasted, keto, or on a carbohydrate-heavy diet, and eating protein - coming from a fasted state, eating protein actually made the insulin/glucagon ratio go down. Keto people had almost no response to protein, ~6%, as far as increasing the insulin/glucagon ratio. Carb-eaters (the ‘Standard American Diet’) had an increase in that ratio that was 70 times higher than the keto group.
One thing I’d like to know is what the exact insulin numbers were, rather than just the comparison of it versus glucagon.
I just listened to Dr Fung’s “The Obesity Code” on my audiobook player. He talked a lot about Set Point and a lot of the science behind yo yo dieting (big history with that here as well) and it all really hit home with me. You might check that out.
IThank you all for your replies. It is reassuring to hear what you had to say. A couple months ago I read a ‘Health at Every Size’ book which spelled out all the ‘science’ behind diets not working long term. Incidentally, this was what really triggered me to decide I wanted to make permanent lifestyle and eating changes. I am so happy with how I feel physically and emotionally with this WOE and have just returned from a camping trip with friends where I decided to give it my best keto-wise because I knew it would be more challenging but I did it! Tested this morning and I am still firmly in ketosis! I’m going to enjoy reading and learning more about the weight set point issue but try not to worry about it too much because for the first time in years, I feel so good!!
I’m also very interested in ‘set point’. Until my 30s, not that active, highish carby diet, I was nonetheless effortlessly around 125lb - my body simply stuck to that. Since then like others, it crept up and from mid 40s-mid 50s roared up to a high of just over 200lb. I guess it’s mainly due to age-induced increasing insulin resistance in the face of my long lasting dietary provocation, although I am lucky, am not prediabetic. In years past Atkins-with-low-fat helped; now I’m letting myself get over the fat-fear and it’s full throttle LCHF with really good results so far- the evidence is simply too persuasive and I’m not hungry so it’s sustainable.
However, I reckon I’ll never easily get back to 125lb - and not reverting to youthful weight seems to be the experience here. To be fair, so long as I’m healthier and more energetic I don’t really mind. But I’d love to know: is the reason for a shifted-upward set-point because I ate myself up by 80lb? Or is it because I’m 20 years older and my body is less efficient thru age?
I read somewhere that if one makes superhuman effort to overcome the set point and keep there for >6 months, the body will accept the new set point. Alas I can’t remember where and I would love the dudes to explore and explain the science here! These podcasts are simply great for all the chatty real-life detail and I’m massively grateful.
I found this video absolutely amazing! *Dr Benjamin Bikman – Insulin vs Glucagon: The relevance of dietary protein. wow, I’ve been eating about 1 gram of protein per lb of weight for 4 months and seem to have fallen into a set weight almost no matter of how much or little I eat, whether 2000 or 3000 calories per day my weight seems to stay at 142 although I tend to eat the higher amount because of getting too thin. (actually, not quite four months, I’ve been upping the protein since I thought I was losing too much weight)
FWIW i tend to get stuck at weights i have been in the past for a longer period of time. i also find set points interesting, but mine seem to be too high. im not positive that keto can “fix” my set point but if keto and data like daily weighing and food logs can keep me where I want to be then … I say take that set points!!! ha
