Protein too low?

(Troy John) #1

I am thinking the problems I have begun having after 5 months on Keto might be due to the fact I consume low protein on egg-dinner days. I have stopped whey as it does no longer agree with me. I tried eating more chicken for lunch but my caloric total is up. So I am wondering what to do? Right now on some days, my protein counts comes to about 50gms which according to MFP should be around 90. Two questions, am I correct in saying my protein at 50 is too too low? Secondly, are there keto foods that are high in protein but kind of lower in calories?

(G. Andrew Duthie) #2

Do you know what your lean body mass is (even approximately)?

The rule of thumb advised pretty regularly here is between 1/2 to 1g of protein per kg of lean body mass.

I personally would not rely on an app to tell me how much protein to eat unless it took into account my lean body mass.

Also you donā€™t say (at least not in this thread) what ā€œproblemsā€ youā€™re having. Hard to say if protein is playing a role without knowing what the issues are.

(Troy John) #3

Thanks Devhammer, besides cramping which I realize is an electrolyte issue and which I do take as recommended including high sodium, I am finding muscle weakness and unable to workout effectively anymore. I find my muscles get tired fast. I have stopped whey as it did not agree with me anymore, but as I mentioned my protein consumption is getting too low on some days. Maybe its not a protein issue but I have eliminated other possible causes and was looking for advice and possibly foods that are high in protein but with a low caloric value.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #4

Donā€™t worry about calories. If you are eating fewer calories than you need, you may be lowering your metabolic rate, which could certainly explain why you feel weak.

Stick to the basics:

  1. No more than 20 grams of carbs.
  2. Adequate protein (0.5 to 1g per kg of lean body mass).
  3. Fat until youā€™re full. Donā€™t leave the table hungry.

Donā€™t worry about calories. The goal is to get insulin low, which will give you more access to your stored fuel (aka fat).

Iā€™ve been fasting since Monday night and lifted weights three days in a row fully fasted. When you can access your fat for fuel, you should have no trouble working out.

(Troy John) #5

Thank you Devhammer for the succinct response. I appreciate it. So, I should not worry about macros as long as my carbs are under 20, protein between .5-1gm? Because right now, if I do macros, I am at 82% fat, 6% carbs and 12% protein?

(G. Andrew Duthie) #6

Percentages may be OK for rough benchmarks, but they arenā€™t really (IMO) the best tool.

For now, Iā€™d suggest forgetting calories, and forgetting macro percentages, and focus on the three points above. Listen to your body, and let it guide you in terms of how much to eat, based on those points.

(Troy John) #7

Thank you once again, Andrew. You have been extremely helpful in making me understand better.

(Troy John) #8

Hi Andrew, When you are referring to Carbs under 20 grams per day, do you mean net carbs? I was just reading Low Carb Living by Dr Volek and he mentions only low carb, nothing about ā€˜netā€™. What do you do and what do you suggest. I am so confused. Thanks much.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #9

Net vs. total carbs is something that may vary from person to person, depending on how well you tolerate. In general, the 20g recommendation would usually be interpreted as net carbs (typically total carbs less fiber and sugar alcohols). But thereā€™s debate as to how well some people tolerate things like sugar alcohol, and whether the fiber content should be counted.

The thing to keep in mind is that the GOAL is not about the carbs, per se. The restriction of carbs SERVES the goal, which is limiting how much insulin is produced, for how long, and how often.

If you are among those who find that sugar alcohols provoke an insulin response, then you would want to include any sugar alcohols in your carb consumption limits. Same goes for fiber.

At the end of the day, itā€™s about figuring out what works best for you, and to that end, you are better off being MORE restrictive (i.e. - consider using total carb vs. net carb) than less, at least initially.

But keep in mind the goalā€¦reducing insulin levels and keeping them low. Restricting carbs is a means to that end, because carbs provoke the highest insulin response. And since you donā€™t really need carbs, thereā€™s no downside to restricting them, nutritionally speaking.

(Troy John) #10

Thank you very much. And sorry to bother you, but you are a top resource for me as you are very knowledgeable. I appreciate your input.

(What The Fast?!) #11

He meant to say 1-1.5g protein per kg of lean body mass. If it was the other way around, Iā€™d only be eating 22.5g of protein! You can search on forum for that info or listen to the podcast (they mention it in the first 5 min of show usually). Iā€™m sure it was just a typo on his part.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #12

Not clear, but if youā€™re referring to my recommendation, not a typo.

To be clear, the dudes do commonly refer to 1-1.5g, and thatā€™s fine. I also look at it from the standpoint of one of the studies @richard has cited, which lists 0.3 as the low end of a healthy range for protein intake. Richard has clarified that he thinks that 0.3 is an outlier, and should not be a recommendation, which I respect. But other folks, including Dr. Peter Attia, have suggested keeping protein as low as possible.

IMO, the downsides of overconsuming protein are higher than those of underconsuming it, so I think the lower range may be a better call when someone is having issues.

Hope that clarifies. I definitely think the dudes recommendations should carry more weight, but I also think thereā€™s room for variation.

(What The Fast?!) #13

I see, apologies!

(G. Andrew Duthie) #14

None needed. Just wanted to clarify the reasons. :slight_smile: