Amy Berger. Just that I love the way the article is written. In such easier terms to understand vs. some science study no one can understand LOL
I am sure some have seen this since older. Just wanted to post it out for a read. Take what resonates with you and just maybe learn a bit more or challenge yourself in some way to learn off what is written 
Whatever floats your boat!
Protein & Gluconeogenesis
Fangs
#1
ctviggen
(Bob M)
#2
This is what Iāve been saying over and over and over again. It falls on deaf ears.
For instance, Iāve seen many people say if they eat too much protein, their morning blood sugar will be higher. In my own testing, I see no evidence of that. At all. No matter how much protein I eat.
Regardless, even if it is true, it may be that if youāre exercising a lot, you could get a higher blood sugar, but that would be because the body is trying to give you glycogen in your muscles/liver. Itās not deleterious. There is no evidence that itās deleterious. None. Zero. Zilch.
OgreZed
#3
I wish she didnāt have the mention of protein in the title. She does mention in the article that GNG can also convert fats into glucose, but the title kind of perpetuates the misconception that GNG is done only with proteins. 
Fangs
#4
good post ctv.
for me it is important to learn some truer basics of protein conversion and all that in the body in that, so much ālittle or not finishedā articles are out there on snippets and those snippets when we kinda draw our own conclusions leave us confused. We think we know but we didnāt get the whole scope either. To see an article that shows a complete cycle is nice.
True Ogre but luckily when one reads it and doesnāt pretend they get the whole info from the title, they learn more which is a good thing I guess
Meerkatsandy
#5
I remember watching a doctor Gabrielle Lyon, a protein specialist, on Mark Hymanās podcast and she mentioned that any protein over 30g is converted into glucose by GNG.
I will watch it again tomorrow, hoping that I didnāt remember wrong details.
There is still so much we donāt know about how our bodies workā¦probably a mixture of everything 
David_Stilley
(Full Metal KETO AF)
#6
If that were true meat would cause a much larger insulin spike say when you ate a 20 oz Rib Eye. That was the old thought about any excess converted to glucose. Itās more widely accepted that GNG is need driven, not supply driven. 
Meerkatsandy
#8
She works with a lot of older men and women, so she probably sees this due to their health conditions, maybe T2D?
It would be nice to see an experiment done, lots of men and women of all ages and different health conditions.
atomicspacebunny
(Bunny)
#11
Places boat in water and gives it a push:
Maybe insulin has something to do with over-eating protein when in ketosis and eating a meat only diet long-term although insulin may be low enough to lose weight but with that low insulin sensitivity the trade offs[2][3] donāt sound so good especially with the reduced glucose oxidation from lack of butyrate (grass fed butter) and/or butyrate producing bacteria?
Then there is the colon cancer thing from lack of butyrate producing bacteria?
Sounds dangerous very long-term in my opinion?
We are not talking about eating raw meat here?
And additionally ignoring nitrogen balance does not help matters any?
Then you have other factors of anti-biotic use and hormones being used on the live-stock messing with your gut microbiome?
If I see people 30, 20 or 10 years down the road getting different types of bowel cancers especially from a red meat only diet then I was right and if not then Iām wrong? Then that leaves the question of who wants to be the test subject?
Footnotes:
[1] āā¦Health Benefits of Resistant Starch Resistant starch is also very effective at lowering blood sugar levels after meals (25, 26). Whatās more, it has a second meal effect, meaning that if you eat resistant starch with breakfast, it will also lower your blood sugar spike at lunch (27). ā¦More
[2] āā¦An observational study showed that adults who habitually consume high protein diets (>0.8g protein/kg/day) have reduced insulin sensitivity, lower rates of glucose oxidation, greater endogenous glucose production and greater net gluconeogenesis than those consuming low protein diets (<0.8 g/kg/day) [51]. ā¦ā ā¦More
[3] āā¦Eating a high-carbohydrate diet makes people āfatā because carbohydrates increase blood glucose levels, causing a greater release of insulin, and higher insulin levels cause carbohydrate to be stored easily as fat. Eating a high-protein diet leads to weight loss, decreased insulin levels, and improved glycemia. ā¦ā ā¦More
[4] āā¦Most recently, resistant starch has been in the news because of a study published in this monthās Cancer Prevention Research . When Australian researchers put volunteers on highly carnivorous diets (300 grams a day of lean red meat) and gave half of them 40 grams a day of resistant starch powder, they discovered that the starch had a protective effect: The red-meat-only group saw a 30 percent increase in cancer-promoting molecules in their bowels, while the meat-plus-starch groupās levels did not change. ā¦ā āā¦Bottom line: Resistant starch can help keep you full and maybe even reduce your cancer risk. Aim for at least 10 to 15 grams in your daily diet (a medium-size banana contains about 5 grams; 12.5 grams if itās slightly unripe), especially if you eat a lot of red meat. ā¦ā ā¦More
atomicspacebunny
(Bunny)
#12
Depends on what they mean by supply/need/ demand driven? (they forget about the insulin index? ā¦just cherry pic the the glycemic index, theyāll never notice?) shssssš¤«
Insulin is required to digest meat and fat independent of glucose?
In other words eating too much protein and fat may not raise glucose but will engage insulin all by itself?
Maybe why people start gaining weight after being keto a couple of years or long-term?
Footnotes:
[1] āā¦While high protein, virtually no-carb foods like meat and eggs are low on the glycemic index, they measure high on the insulin index. In other words, while the meat and eggs didnāt cause a spike in blood sugar the way most carbohydrates do, they do result in a significant rise in insulin. ā¦ā ā¦More
[2] āā¦We also do not know the long-term effect of such diets on blood glucose levels and overall health. Although protein ingestion increases circulating insulin in all people, in obese people with type 2 diabetes, the insulin secretion to protein is greater than in subjects without diabetesā¦ā ā¦More
Fangs
#13
there are people out there well over 10 years eating protein/fats only and are healthier than can beā¦some longer. Just hit the zeroing in on health (facebook) and the science they will hit ya with will curl your toes and change some thinking. But one has to delve truly into the real science and lifestyle and true life experiences about carnivore eating. A toe into the water is useless. All guessing and not knowing.
So as much as the toxic plants are thought to be these wonderful nutrient wonder foods etc and āheatlhy carbsā etc., the more inflammation you get in your body from toxicity of plants, the more your body āgoes offā and āout of balanceāā¦NOW ONE thing I have to say is if one is in true medical situations with present real diseases and things, your healing time and all can be way different than a healthy person stepping into carnivore. But there are 3-5-8 yr vets on zero carb who have truly fixed up medically wrecked bodies. The proof is in the meat on some forums and info is out thereā¦ā¦.if one wants to go find it.
"Protectiveā things are needed in the body because of all the toxic things one eats on a daily basis from the horrible foods now available to the toxic plant intake to the allergies some have to foods like inflammation etc from dairy and all. Only reason the body needs some things to protect is cause of the things one eats that is wrecking the body.
Like Scurvyā¦omg the funny on that with carnivore. you are gonna get scury. No vitamin Cā¦the SO MUCH need thing to survive and not get sick and allā¦UGHā¦just read up on Vilhjalmur Stefansson and Anderson. It explains a lot. A body never needs vitamin C, it requires fresh meats etc. and makes the little C it needs on its own. Little facts so many donāt even know.
But it is good to throw around info. here for otherās to research and learn what suits them and follow what beliefs they will embrace.
atomicspacebunny
(Bunny)
#14
Really? Three people dead from colon cancer?
Coincidence or mere speculation?
From your side of the fence, maybe?
But not on my side!
No guessing on my part, itās all about knowing the consequences?
Thatās toe curling enough for me and all I need to know to make rational and common sense decisions?
atomicspacebunny
(Bunny)
#15
Yes it sure does explain a lot, thatās a raw meat diet and can turn into what is called the Arctic variant gene CPT-1a deficiency that they pass on to their children. And what that means is they have to constantly eat carbohydrates or they will die?
Over-eating eating raw meat and fat combined with cold arctic environment and why they might not be as susceptible to colon cancers is because they switch out sources of protein quite often that are rich in iodine? And by the way the Inuit et al. do eat carbohydrates (resistant starches; roots of plants) despite the misinformation.
I just cannot believe how naive people are?
atomicspacebunny
(Bunny)
#16
Hereās one other little fact:
You are not a carnivore, the family pet yes but not youā¦period!
You are an omnivore and you are designed to eat carbohydrates and resistant starches, you have this little gland under your tongue called a salivary gland and it exclusively produces amylase enzymes (carnivores do not) unlike your pancreas which contains all three digestive enzymes, that should be a clue as to what you are intended to eat?
You do not have the acidic digestive tract of a carnivore which is exclusively intended for digesting raw meat, not cooked meat.
There are many other little nuances that tell us exclusive meat diets are a big no no for human beings.
Yes and they have horribly weak (compromised) immune systems as a result from not re-introducing carbohydrates than before they started and possibly starting to get breaks in their chromosomes from malnutrition?
It is kind of like living in a sterile environment from birth, once you step outside you will be attacked from all angles biologically from merely breathing and meet your untimely death from lack of exposure; that is why you need hormetic stress from ācarbohydrates.ā
Their are people who need serious medical help to help recover their lost microbiome from eating only red meat and only a few docs who specialize in that.
Fangs
#17
Hyper fluffy āomgā really here?
3 people passed away from driving blue cars?
Is blue a death color for all cars? Coincidence or mere speculation?
Blanket statements on little facts donāt work.
You know an adult might need around 40 gr. of rs IF THEY want to have it in their system cause they believe that it will act without increasing blood sugar etc. because it hits the large intestine. Ok I get that. But then I see add 100 grams of carbs back into your menu. I believe you stated that to someone on the board. Correct me if wrong.
Then some info of RSā¦ There is weak evidence that resistant starch can improve fasting glucose, fasting insulin, insulin resistance and sensitivity, especially in individuals who are diabetic, overweight or obese stating that resistant starch might reduce the risk of type 2 but with qualifying language for product labels that limited scientific evidence exists to support this claim. Because qualified health claims are issued when the science evidence is weak or not consistent, the FDA requires specific labeling language, such as the guideline concerning resistant starch: "High-amylose maize resistant starch may reduce the risk of Type 2 diabetes. FDA has concluded that there is limited scientific evidence for this claim.
Limited scientific evidence. Weak or not consistent.
More infoā¦from Markās Daily apple
Is consuming resistant starch the only way to feed our gut?
No, definitely not. Other prebiotic substances matter, like various plant fibers (inulin, pectin), dark chocolate, and even connective tissue, animal fiber ā the crunchy gristle and cartilage too many people discard. A Primal eating plan rich in plants and whole animals including bone marrow broth and more, you should be getting plenty.
rice and potatoesā¦by cooking and cooling them, you reduce the carb load, reduce the glucose response, and may improve your insulin sensitivity. In essence, any ānegativesā are mitigated by the emphasis on resistant starch. If you have trouble with glucose tolerance, and youāre looking to drop weight, you should still exercise much caution with these foods and --heed the Carb Curve-- but preparing them in a way that increases the RS content will only make them less problematic. But, potatoes are iffy for people with nightshade intolerance. So thereās that to consider.
Legumes, Iām not sure. I strongly suspect that the health benefits ascribed to legumes are solely due to the prebiotic, RS effects, which interest me but are not the sole province of it. But the fact remains that many people simply donāt tolerate legumes very well. It could be that some of the tolerance issues stem from disrupted gut flora and introducing RS will ameliorate your troubles, but who knows? Weāre still learning a lot. In the meantime, Iām not too interested in soaking beans. Thereās nothing essential about them, so long as weāre getting RS from other sources.
OK that is as far as I am going on starch. I canāt do it anymoreā¦I am like another poster that said she aināt going there and she opts out. I think the people on this board are way smart in their Keto ways and can easily get by without RS shoved down their throat every minute LOL but in the end, whatever and enjoy your science as you see fit and I will enjoy my science and we agree to disagree and just each otherās thoughts go their own way and blah blah all good tho for me.
Fangs
#18
I was going to address the artic variant etc but OMG with the other replies I realize I am just not capable of wasting my time. The
āI wonāt listen debate, closed my ears to all but my own science I believeā just gets on my nerves.
I wonāt take the time to throw science fact after science fact at ya LOL
You assume way to much about zero carb meat eaters on 2-3-18 plus years of meat/seafood only and you think you can guess their info. Guess their problems. Not listen to what has improved and just lump sum them so I canāt go there with ya.
aināt gonna do the carnivore vs omnivore discussionā¦you have a lot to learn on carnivore tho is all I have to say butā¦
done deal and all is good, just canāt do it anymore. Someone else has to fight. I donāt battle anymore on this, one reason I only frequent keto/carnivore type like minded eating people. So I donāt have to do this. There is always that fly that get into any forum tho LOL Bowing out now.
Fangs
#20
oh I can easily do that. Only got 8 yrs left to hit 10 so see ya sooner than later
I think we ended on a good note. You do you, I do me and otherās do whatever they decide and follow sciences as they deem fit. Sometimes the nitty gritty is justā¦you knowā¦and I have to walk away from it as I am sure it gets to you too
It is all cool to me