Power output has gone way down

cycling
(What The Fast?!) #21

Thanks. Do you take daily, also when fasting?

(Boston_guy) #22

I don’t fast… but take about 5g Creatine and 10g Glycine daily.

#23

I doubt that extended fasting and long range cycling are ever going to be a good pair. Phinney is totally against fasting past 24 hours. Fung is not. Interesting. Fasted cycling or workouts are working for folks for sure, but longer multiday fasts and strenuous athletic performance like doing HIIT? I just doubt it is a good idea. Phinney claims the science shows that extended fasting consumes lean body mass. Maybe try to either add protein or reduce fasting period see how things go? I am still trying to figure out my dizziness comes from lack of salt or potassium.

(Greg Borchert) #24

I noticed my HR higher too and got it back down with better hydration and electrolytes. Tried something called Lyteshow and it helped. It contains magnesium, sodium, zinc, chloride, potassium and sulfate. I disagree with many active keto dieters on protein. I go by .8 grams per pound of lean body mass per day, or even higher. I find that my body craves it. Gluconeogenesis is often misunderstood. Your body does not just convert all protein intake to glucose. It’s an on-demand kind of thing, where your brain converts what it needs.
My protein intake has never once knocked me out of ketosis. Yes, I eat a lot of good fats, but I have definitely found that my athletic performance is better with more protein. Also the glutamine/glycine supplementation another member mentioned helps me not just with strength but also digestion.

(ianrobo) #25

there is a disagreement between the two and Fung does not talk about the kind of exercise a lot of us do here. Yes I do fasted morning rides so usually by the time I eat again possibly 18 hours including 3-5 hours of riding. I also know one person who is better than me who odes it after 24 hours and of course @richard swears by his rides after 2/3 day fasts,

I just guess it is down again to N=1 stuff and you have tot ry out different things

(Greg Borchert) #26

I noticed one other thing on keto and an increased HR, and that is periodically lower than normal hemoglobin. I have been a low carb dieter for more than 20 years, and have charted my daily blood pressure and HR regularly. I went from an Atkins style diet to a full keto diet and noticed that my HR went up a few points. I also started testing my hemoglobin at home and noticed it was low normal range. I’d eat a beef steak and the next day my hemoglobin would increase to normal levels. I researched and read that iron deficiency is quite common on a ketogenic diet. When iron is low your blood carries less oxygen, which results in higher HR and less power. A lot of the blood doping and doping in sports is to increase hemoglobin and hematocrit so that one’s blood carries more oxygen. I am trying to remedy this with a supplement called Hema-Plex. Very good reviews! Also being careful to get enough B12 and C. I am feeling more energetic a couple days into it and my hemoglobin levels are back up where I want them.

(What The Fast?!) #27

Interesting. I actually just got a full blood panel - my hemoglobin was 12.4 and my hematocrit was 38.4. Both are within range - hematocrit was on the low end of normal, but still normal.

(Jennifer) #28

Seems to me that if you are losing muscle and have no energy you are not eating enough. I’d up protein and fat - especially if you are active.

(Greg Borchert) #29

12.4 is too low for someone living an active lifestyle. At 12.5 one is considered too anemic to give blood. Yes, the range for adult women is 12 to 16 but you should want to be at the higher end of that range. I looked at many products but thought I’d give Hema-Plex a try. 205 reviews on Amazon, 4.6 stars out of 5. Many verified reviewers. 4.8 stars out of 5 on Vitaminshoppe. 5 out of 5 on Vitacost. If you recall the EPO scandal in pro cycling, that was all about cyclists trying to get their hemoglobin and hematocrit numbers off the charts high. Shoot for high normal! It will help.

(What The Fast?!) #30

Awesome, thanks for the advice. I’m also going to be adding more protein; that should help too!

My energy is only low after the 36-48 hour mark of fasting. Otherwise I have great energy. Thank you though!

(Jennifer) #31

I don’t know - you have probably listened to the podcast with Megan about mixing it up, right? Don’t get into patterns and always keep your body guessing. One of the things you might try is fat fasting. When you want to continue a fast, but start to feel weak, eat some fat. Maybe a BPC or some olives. That is what I do, but I fast for autophagy and HGH benefits. Eating fat does not affect either very much.

I also think that some folks (who are more insulin sensitive) can eat a lot more protein. It’s something to think about and do some n=1 tests. Best of luck to you!

(What The Fast?!) #32

Thanks! I thought eating fat prevented autophagy. I think it was on one of the recent Obesity Code podcasts - Fung answered a listener question and said salt and water only if you want autophagy.
I agree about the protein and am going to be adding more.

(Jennifer) #33

Hmmm, that’s new - his book says protein stops it.

#34

Folks generally say that it’s protein that stops autophagy but I think no one quite knows, and also it’s probably a bit of a spectrum (some cleaning up can happen when you take out protein and carbs, but we might go into a more dramatic/deeper renewal with just water).

(Joe) #35

Just read through this thread any updates?:grinning:

(What The Fast?!) #36

Hey @JoeG3383 - sorry for the delay! My power is back to normal after I made two changes:

I’ve stopped fasting for the past 6 weeks
I had a food intolerance test done and cut out a TON of foods I was eating, including: avocado, butter, lettuce, milk/cream/soft cheese, beef, salmon, broccoli, and eggs (and several other things). I’m literally eating only pork/bacon, zucchini, spinach, and MCT oil…

My theory is this…I was fasting and then immediately refeeding with foods that my body was trouble digesting/utilizing for energy, so it put me into a weird state where I wasn’t accessing fat stores properly during a fast and not getting the benefits of the feast/fast cycle because everything I ate was jacking up my insides.

So, now that I’ve cut all that out, I do plan to do some fasting again and see if it affects my riding or not. I am in the middle of my first post-elimination diet fast. I went on a 15 mile ride this afternoon (about 18 hours fasted) and can tell you that even though yesterday was my rest day, my legs felt like they weighed a thousand pounds.

I will try a couple more fasted rides, but in general, I can tell you that I do MUCH better and am stronger, faster, etc when I’m fueled. I should also mention that there are virtually no flat rides around me, even my regular 15 mile out and back ride is 800 feet of climbing on the way to the turnaround…plus wind is a common theme here. If I was doing a flat ride, I think I’d probably be fine to ride fasted.

(Windmill Tilter) #37

I know it’s bad form, but this was a truly fascinating thread. Diminished power/performance during demanding activities like cycling is something that the majority of people on keto struggle with in the beginning.

By the end of the thread, it sounded like you when identified some food intolerances and stopped extended fasting, your power returned pretty quickly. I curious if you ever sort out which of these two was the primary factor. Did returning to extended fasting rob you of power again?

If you’ve got a moment I’d love to hear how it all worked out!