Plateau Buster - Has anybody attempted LCHF to Vegan cycling?

cycling
vegan
ketotarian
plateau
not-for-newbies
(Bunny) #21

Hmmm, If I were going to be a strict vegetarian in fat adapted ketosis I would get SNP tested to make sure I have the right genetic polymorphisms to exclusively tolerate plant phytosterols (raw unsaturated fats) better than saturated fats and eat chlorella* (better than meat) for B-12 and an endless list of other micronutrients (vitamins, minerals, trace elements).

But if I was not one those peeps then I would probably fail (cardiovascular disease or a hyper- responder in reverse?) at being a strict vegetarian!

*Footnote: Chlorella and Spirulina contain both the animal (DHA/EPA) and plant based (ALA) omega3 fatty acids.

(Jane) #22

Well Frankobearā€¦ since you are so curious about it why donā€™t you try it and report back your experience? Canā€™t hurt since you can always switch back to keto if you donā€™t get the results you want.

#23

Always amazingly researched @atomicspacebunny. Spirulina just looks amazing as an option due to nutrient density.

#24

It was a thought to get my 6 monthly biomarker tests. Then do a 3 day fast, then attempt a satiating ketotarian menu for a month like @richard but, maybe based on some advice from Dr. Will Coleā€™s recent book. I was just hoping to find if anyone may have already gone there, by posting.

#25

Going to be very few on this wagon, mostly because being keto and in these circles all but the newbies are typically VERY aware of how our bodies work, the science behind it and most importantly we give our bodies what theyā€™re biologically designed to have. Veganism spits in the face of that, Veganism isnā€™t a way of eating, itā€™s an ideology bordering on cult like religion. Yes, there ARE some completely normal vegans out there I get it BUT theyā€™re the minority. If youā€™re going to attempt this donā€™t fool yourself at all the problems that come along with vegetarianism and veganism, severe nutrient deficiencies are the biggie, but it goes way past that. I know a few people who went that road YEARS ago, got out and they still havenā€™t fixed their health problems. Hop on youtube and start watching videos of former vegans and veggies and see what their going through. A drastic dietary change always produces results. But so does fasting, fasting mimicking diets, hard gym sessions and those donā€™t destroy your body. Thereā€™s a reason even non keto people laugh at the sunken eyed corpses struggling to get their bony arms to barely push their mini shopping cart at whole foods! Ya, itā€™s a funny stereotypeā€¦ but it started for a reason! Iā€™m all for a good n=1, but think it out first.

Also, ā€œsafeā€ fats?

#26

Avoiding industrial seed oils and margarines.

(Janelle) #27

I was vegetarian many years ago. I gained weight and always thought something was missing in my nutrition despite lots of research. I read a statistic here that there is a pretty large abandon rate of vegetarianism and veganism. I suppose there might be from keto as well.

I agree with whoever said that if youā€™re curious - try it and report back.

(Robert C) #28

In my opinion it would not be a good idea to try keto eating for vegetarians as that is not anything like a primal / Paleo type diet. As well - youā€™re still continuously hormonally keto - which just about never happened to humans in history. Per your desire to ā€œchange it up a bitā€ - keto accomplished a different way is still keto so, not much of a change.

My actual plan is to periodically add some fresh fruits and things like sweet potato once in a while to mimic a summer - along with extra exercise. Historically we would not have skipped these sorts of foods when available as hunting things with teeth and claws in generally dangerous and it is a nice way to fatten before winter.

In my ā€œwinterā€ I would stick with strict keto and fasting - as historically happened in deep winter.

(Todd Allen) #29

FrankoBear, one might think of cycling vegan phases as a variation on fasting. Ok, perhaps excellent, if not done to excess, the more one pushes it the more care one must take to avoid deficiency issues. Fasting induced autophagy is largely due to the lack of protein and maybe a period of lower protein intake during a vegan phase would induce this to some extent too.

I think experimentation is great so long as one is in tune with their health and can well evaluate the impacts both good and bad. If so, it should be possible to avoid siginficant harms while fine tuning to see what best achieves ones goals. I think most get into trouble when they become ā€œbelieversā€ in something and overlook signs of trouble until serious problems develop.

(KCKO, KCFO) #30

The 2ketodudes just did a podcast about Richardā€™s experience of going vegetarian for a month. Maybe tag him to discuss more about his experience and what changed?

(Brian) #31

Iā€™m not generally a podcast type person but that would be an interesting discussion.

(Mike W.) #32

Is bacon made from plants?

(KCKO, KCFO) #33

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Bacon seeds.jpg960Ɨ891 72.4 KB

(Bob M) #34

The problem is that one reason some of us are here is because we ate near vegetarian and thatā€™s one reason that caused us to get here. I used to eat hot cereal (oats, wheat, etc.) for bfast, pasta for lunch and brown rice and beans for dinner, with rice cakes for snacks. Did that for years. Very low fat, <10% by calories. But caused depression, wild mood swings, intense hunger, anger, etc. Have none of that now.

And Iā€™m not alone in being one of these people:
Ted Naiman = former vegetarian

Lierre Keith = former vegan

Dr. Georgia Ede = former vegetarian (or vegan?)

It goes on and onā€¦

For me, you couldnā€™t pay me enough to cycle into vegan.

#35

Itā€™s all star dust and thermonuclear energy

#36

This is brilliant Tom. Itā€™s along the lines I was thinking. Especially in terms of breaking plateaus in a ketogenic lifestyle.

Thank you so much for putting your thoughts in to words.

(Jane) #37

So Iā€™m not sure I completely understand what you are wanting to do here.

Do you want to cycle to paleo or vegan for a couple of months?

Or a keto-version of vegetarian/vegan? I donā€™t know of a keto version of paleo since paleo just seems to be keto plus root vegetables and fruit.

(Robert C) #38

I am not sure I understand this.

If a vegetarian phase is a variation on fasting, does that mean you eat so few calories (a couple of hundred or less) that your body does not feel it is calorie restriction (so doesnā€™t slow metabolism)?

I think the basic problem with your original ask is that going vegetarian will slow your metabolism unless you do a keto vegetarian to keep the calories up and metabolism intact. Then it comes down to doing keto vegetarian - which is targeting the same hormonal response as regular keto but, is (from what I have heard) a lot more work.

(Todd Allen) #39

Iā€™m thinking of it more in terms of protein and especially amino acids such as methionine and BCAAs which tend to be low in vegan foods. This should lower IGF1 and MTOR shifting one toward a more catabolic state. I suppose that could be blunted by an increase in carbohydrates but if the goal is busting a weight loss plateau I doubt going high carb is the plan.

(Robert C) #40

Shaking things up by dropping protein is a legitimate way to see if a plateau can be broken.
I could see this as a ā€œgiggle the handleā€ approach - for like a week or two - and it probably wouldnā€™t hurt anything if you jump right back to keto.
When it comes to doing this for months (as the OP intends), I believe it would tend to cause metabolic slowdown.
Dropping pounds at the cost of a lower daily BMR is not worth it in my opinion.