Physiological insulin resistance and carb loading for non diabetics?

#1

So my doctor said ALL of my blood numbers were great and that I may do cheat days if I please or quit the diet entirely if I so chose (I’m only on it because it helps with my stress levels and aches and pains, health is a happy side effect).

That being said, I am wondering about the fact that a person who has been on keto for a while will have physiological insulin resistance and will fail a glucose tolerance test and be diagnosed diabetic if the doctor didn’t know of this phenomenon.

Because of this, do we get high enough blood sugar levels to cause nerve damage when we do a cheat day or carb load or whatever when in a physiological insulin resistant state?

For example, is a ketoer who does cheat days once a month going to end up blind or missing toes like a diabetic because they are having technically diabetic blood sugar levels once a month?

Or are they not THAT high, but rather just higher than normal and only technically diabetic, yet still not harmful?

High glucose
#2

If you are in ketosis, you should never take a Glucose Tolerance Test without eating carbs (c. 300g) for 3 days prior to the test.

If you are not diabetic but eating very low carb, if you go off and eat carbs, your body will be able to handle the glucose without ‘spiking’ to diabetic levels.

(Bunny) #3

Thought this may interest you based on your post for ‘cheat days’ or ‘quitting diet entirely:’

  1. Carnosine is Lacking in Type 2 Diabetic Patients
    https://www.wellnessresources.com/news/carnosine-is-lacking-in-type-2-diabetic-patients

  2. Effects of carnosine supplementation on glucose metabolism: Pilot clinical trial. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27040154/

  3. Carnosine as a protective factor in diabetic nephropathy: association with a leucine repeat of the carnosinase gene CNDP1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16046297/

  4. L-Carnosine Protects Diabetics
    http://www.liveinthenow.com/article/l-carnosine-protects-diabetics

(bulkbiker) #4

Not so sure about that. it certainly won’t kill ya.
I did it without carbing up beforehand and still “passed” does that mean my Type 2 diabetes is “cured”?
No idea but I’ll carry on with keto anyway because I like it.

#5

@Mare

Thank you. Perhaps I wasn’t clear. What I am asking is: when a person in ketosis who has developed the natural physiological insulin resistance that comes with ketosis does a high carb cheat day or meal, are they going to have the same terrible effects of high blood sugar that diabetics have since they will have a spike that is higher than normal due to their physiological insulin resistant state?

Are non diabetic ketoers who do cheat days here and there going to suffer blindness, tissue death and other problems that diabetics do?

Ketosis causes temporary and supposedly harmless insulin resistance. This also supposedly means that one will have an abnormally high spike after a high carb meal in blood glucose. Is this spike harmful? Or just technically above normal but not into the heights that cause serious damage to the body?

#6

@atomicspacebunny

Thank you. I do not understand. Could you please clarify what you are getting at here?

#7

@MarkGossage

Thank you.

What I am asking is: when a non diabetic who is in ketosis and in the normal, temporary state of physiological insulin resistance and they eat a high carb meal and have an abnormaly high glucose spike, are they going to suffer the same damage to their bodies as diabetics do such as blindness, tissue damage, etc. ?

(Justin Jordan) #8

No.

It takes literally decades of constant, 24/7 elevated blood sugar for those to happen. Even if you do damage on a once a month cheat day, and IF the damage didn’t heal, you’d be dead long before the accumulated damage. You’d need to live for 500 years to do 20 years worth of damage.

I emphasize the if above because the damage that leads to that stuff isn’t irreversible. Blindness and lost toes obviously are, but what leads to that is blood vessel and nerve damage, and that absolutely does heal.

It’s unlikely one cheat day is going to get you into levels that would actually do any harm, and what harm you do will be healed by the next 29 days of not having those kinds of blood sugars.

(bulkbiker) #9

Sorry no idea as I don’t eat high carb meals. Why would I they gave me Type 2 diabetes.

(Bunny) #10

To make a long story short:

If you do eat sugar or high carbs and want to maintain Ketosis this Carnosine compound also blocks it (lowers blood sugars even if you eat sugar) from the damaging effects your talking about besides a whole other host of benefits!

This is amazing stuff and extremely complex in the way it functions as it strikes at the root of the problem and basically mimicks the LCHF diet without even restricting the sugars or carbs!

I have problems with Lectins and took a couple (not sure on the dosing) of these Carnosine supplements (just got them in the mail last night) and low and behold I did not have any problems (like acid reflux) that I usually get from eating sugar and high carbs or high lectins foods like dairy, tomatos and bread as an experiment (still experimenting)!

It really does work so far to my utter disbelief!

#11

@Justin_Jordan

Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for!

So the only way it would be a problem is if one did once a week or even closer together cheat days but that frequency would prevent physioloical insulin resistance in the first place! So, if I understand correctly, unless one were a diabetic, ketosis and cheat days are not going to cause blood sugar related damage to one’s body!

Good to know.

#12

@atomicspacebunny

Thank you. I like the idea but in the US supplements are 100% unregulated and so I never take them.

#13

Is there a particular supplement that you prefer?

#14

So your afraid to take anything that a government hasn’t said is safe? Last time I checked the FDA has only succeeded in keeping us in terrible health and keeping the development of drugs that may save lives astronomically expensive which trickles down to us. Don’t be paranoid. What do you think will be going into your body when you eat on your cheat DAYS, (usually it’s cheat MEAL)? Weirdo chemicals, crazy sprays that do who knows what, filthy hands of the sick teenager that made it, of course some round up in there is a half safe bet etc etc etc. Not trying to beat you up here, but the AHA keeps us stroking out, the ADA wants us all to be diabetics, and your worried about supplements because their unregulated? Your a member HERE, so I don’t fully believe that you need a non interested 3rd party to say things are ok for you. Your already ignoring what the people that graduated medical school say is healthy!

(Bunny) #15

Wheatgrass & Broccoli Sprouts

#16

I think you are confusing yourself because of the terminology. Someone whose body has physiologically adapted to ketosis is highly insulin sensitive. It is better to call this adaptative glucose sparring. This may result in temporarily high BG under certain circumstances, but not high enough or long enough to cause physiological damage. A keto adapted person may perform suboptimally on a certain test, but it would take a highly incompetent doctor to confuse this with diabetes.

Said differently, there’s no way a person could eat a LC diet that would physiologically change their metabolism such that it increased their risk of diabetes or any disease caused by high BG or insulin.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #17

I was just reading an article on physiological insulin resistance, and the the author suggested replacing that term with “glucose sparing,” because the muscles are saving the glucose created by gluconeogenesis for the organs that really need it. As one British author put it, with his HbA1C well below 5.5, he has no intention of worrying about what his serum glucose does.

As far as eating carbohydrates while in ketosis is concerned, my question would be, why? Since there is no physiological reason requiring us to eat carbohydrate, and there are several reasons not to, I suppose my answer would depend on how much I missed the taste of carbohydrate and what quantity I could safely eat while remaining in ketosis. In my case, there is also the issue of addiction to sugar and to carbohydrate in general to be considered.