Ongoing Digestive Issues

#6

Thanks for the reassurance, Im starting to think it might be the fat issue as well. I had a ton of trouble all throughout last night after eating short ribs for dinner and ribeye for lunch, which in retrospect seems like poor decision making haha.
Please update me and let me know if you have any progress with the lipase going forward.

#7

No MCT oil currently.
Im going to stick with leaner cuts and use fatty cuts sparingly. If that goes well, I think I will also try to add in some other lean animal sources too.

(KCKO, KCFO) #8

Welcome to the forums.

My husband battles IBS-D, so I understand what you are going through.

I will be following this discussion to learn more. Hope you get yourself sorted out quickly.

(Laurie) #9

Since becoming “mostly carnivore,” my BMs are usually fine. Most days I eat basically the same thing, for various reasons. I’ve noticed that when I diverge slightly, my output changes too.

Looks like you’re well on the way to figuring it out.

As for liver, I cook it in butter, on lowish heat. I cook it for a heck of a lot longer than 90 seconds, and it’s never tough. I think low heat is the secret.

#10

I will definitely try that for the liver. I was trying it raw and frozen since the texture wasnt as bad and i could get it down faster.
I will keep trying to find what works best

#11

I haven’t had IBS so I can’t help with that aspect. I’ve been carnivore for 2 years and my microbiome was excellent - no gut issues whatsoever, didn’t break wind etc.

I have been very unwell with Covid for a few months - and it really disrupted my gut in the first month / six weeks. My gut hasn’t quite recovered to its pre-Covid state, but it has improved with time - I am perhaps 80% of the way there.

Ever since going carnivore, I became very in tune with what my body wanted. I am not a carnivore who eats masses of organs - I like them, but I only ate them when they appealed to me (maybe once every six months). Since contracting Covid, I just wanted to eat organs - pate, liver, heart, kidney, and I even broke strict carnivore to eat black pudding (made from blood) - and did so multiple times a week. I also had major cravings for seafood, which I previously ate once a week, and broth - which I previously drank about twice a month.

I ate what I craved for a couple of months (seafood every day, organs 4-5 times a week, two pints of broth a day) and I felt better once I ate those foods, but I still wanted them again the next day.

If you’ve been in long Covid circles, I’m sure you’ve read all of the theories about Covid causing depletion of certain vitamins and minerals - so in response to those cravings, I added in some vitamin supplementation (prior to this, I only supplemented magnesium).

Since adding in the vitamins, I am now back to having absolutely no interest in organs to the point of being repulsed by the thought of liver, a reduced interest in fish (back to my normal levels), and drinking much less broth.

I’m not saying categorically that this theory about depletion is true (or true for everyone), but from my personal experience, I think it’s credible that Covid has ripped through my microbiome and also affected the storage of certain vitamins and minerals, and perhaps I need to supplement to bring them back up to a normal level. I am hopeful this is a short term issue, as I was happy not supplementing prior to Covid.

It’s interesting that you mention kefir. I see this mentioned a lot in Covid recovery spaces and a few weeks ago, I was on the fence whether to try it because my gut felt problematic still - but I’ve not eaten dairy in 2 years. In the end, as I was still seeing improvement in my Covid symptoms, I decided to give my body more time before trying anything else new and I think I have seen more improvement just with time.

Coffee can also be an irritant. I drank it for the first year or so whilst doing otherwise strict carnivore with no ill-effects, and then I dropped it when it started to have a bit of a laxative effect. I mention it in case you are drinking coffee.

MOOvember Carnivore
#12

In case anyone is in the same circumstances, I decided to drink kefir to see if it would resolve my lingering gut issues. The kefir I had was made from raw A2 milk.

For 2 weeks, I drank 1/2 a pint a day and progressed to a pint a day for about 5 weeks, and 1 week, I had 2 pints a day.

My gut has recovered a lot. Maybe it was the kefir, maybe it was time - maybe it’s both. I am fairly certain that drinking so much kefir affected ketosis.

I stopped drinking it last week and I want to see if my gut remains stable - or if it’s something I need to include occasionally.

(Laurie) #13

Hi @Septimius . Thank you for the update. I hope the improvement lasts!

(Bob M) #14

I have been drinking goat’s milk kefir, though I don’t think it’s raw. I also drink raw milk from Jersey cows, which produce A2 proteins.

I’ve also been taking a triple-type probiotic, which I’ve found to be helpful. And I take in other fermented products too.

I’m recovering from covid, so I’ll have to see what comes up (or out?).

#15

Key to it all is finding you for sure! Let us know more updates! You rock out handling what you need for you Septimius!! Lovin’ that walk you tackle as you need on carnivore!

unless you are ‘putting yourself in real ketosis numbers’ thru manipulation on your daily eating plan, you did not ‘effect ketosis’ ya know in that all zc people are a ketone burn body system. So will be interesting to see you on this now but I take it? you are not? checking ketones? being so long on plan now?

(Megan) #16

Hey Fangs, can you explain what you mean by this?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #17

In the absence of dietary carbohydrate, insulin drops to the point where the liver makes ketones (ketogenesis) and glucose (gluconeogenesis) to feed cells that need them. Red blood cells lack mitochondria and therefore must have glucose to live; the brain needs very little glucose when ketones are abundant, but it does need some. Skeletal muscles prefer to metabolise fatty acids over ketones or glucose; the heart muscle does extremely well on ketones, especially when there is arterial blockage.

Although people on a carnivore diet typically show a low level of serum β-hydroxybutyrate, their bodies are still in fat-burning mode, because their ratio of insulin to glucagon is low. Once the skeletal muscles reactivate their mitochondria and fatty-acid metabolic pathways (fat-adaptation), the liver cuts back on the amount of ketones it produces, matching it more closely to need. Though eating more fat can raise serum β-hydroxybutyrate to some degree, apparently. But the point is that when we don’t eat dietary glucose (better known as carbohydrate), then we need to avail ourselves of the other source of energy, which is fatty-acid metabolism (which includes ketones, because ketones are partially metabolised fatty-acids).

#18

your body can run off glucose or ketones. 2 ways of survival the universe gave us.

if you eat carbs and we know carbs are a sugar source…your body is gonna burn all glucose first at all times. too much carbs in our bodies will make our bodies a primary glucose burn body. Anyone ingesting carbs to like that, hmm, over like 50g will be glucose burn body. When we hit into that lower 50g and down intake, our bodies start to flip into a ketone burn body.

now if we do ‘keto’ plan and keep to say like 20 g or so of carbs we are taking away the glucose and we are making the body switch to be a ‘ketone burning body’ for fuel.

So our bodies, those of us who eat very very low carb, or are eating no carbs have become a ketone burn body. A person who cuts carbs to say, hmm, 100g down from their like 300g intake and are doing ‘cut carbs some’ are still a glucose burn body.

So if we eliminate carbs totally, as in a carnivore lifestyle, our bodies must be using only ketones for our fuel. All ketones change and how they function in what quantity and how thru the body will change around as we stay on plan. They normalize. At this point we are not using glucose to run our bodies, we are using the ketones to supply all function for our bodies.

that is how I describe it, Paul got way more sciency on it HAHA

#19

It’s a long story, but someone I’m close to has been diagnosed with a serious illness - so we were trying to get their GKI ratio in line with Thomas Seyfried’s recommendations for therapeutic keto.

As they were measuring, out of curiosity, I tested my blood sugar/ketones at the same time. But I’d never tested on this carnivore plan before.

Part of my curiosity was that up until catching Covid, I was super strict. I have remained carnivore, only eating foods from the animal kingdom, but throughout Covid, I have eaten what I craved. I mentioned before about my theory about vitamins/minerals being affected.

Consequently, I have had a lot more carbs (kefir, broth, certain seafoods, black pudding, sausages, liver, pâté). Whereas pre-Covid, I either didn’t eat those items, or they were super occasional items.

I got a ketone reading of 0.8 and wondered if the kefir was having an impact. I dropped it and over a week later, I tested again…and got 0.8.

So maybe the 0.8 is because I’ve been so long on plan. Or maybe it’s Covid. Or maybe my protein/fat ratio is off.

I’ve had a bit of a weird journey. I did lose weight on carnivore, but not as much as you’d expect, especially as I was so incredibly strict. Then I came off some medication that I believed was affecting my appetite/weight - and I started to lose.

But then, just as I started to see progress, I caught Covid. I lost some body fat rapidly over the first month or so - I thought it was just carnivore in the background because I was eating properly. I put some back on over the last few weeks, so that makes me think it was possibly Covid that caused the weight loss (weight loss is very common apparently). So I don’t know if the weight gain was the kefir and other carbs (as I feared), or if my body was just stabilising again after the worst of the illness.

Being so ill, I’m also now sedentary - which would also have an impact because I used to go for long walks and lift weights.

I feel a bit baffled about what to do next. I’m on carnivore for the long term, I have no plans to stop. I have decided to go back to primarily steak and eggs in the new year, to stop those trace carbs building up in case they are a factor - but I can’t decide if I should just keep eating as I’m eating, and hope that once I finally recover from Covid, my body will start losing again or if this is a sign that I should be actively doing something different.

Maybe 0.8 ketones is a sign that I should be eating a different protein/fat ratio and or different amounts at meals, as @Azi has talked about. Also, both 0.8 values were 19 hours fasted. Maybe I should test again after a meal.

I am a pretty patient person; I don’t mind waiting for results if I’m on the right track - and I recognise that I’ve had two massive confounding problems (medication for 18 months and now long Covid for 6 months). But I guess I just don’t want to get another year or two on and feel as if I’ve not seen the progress I’d hope for.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #20

It’s very frustrating when our body won’t do what we want it to. The urge to take charge and dominate it runs very deep in Western culture. It does seem, however, that trying to outwit two million years of evolution is tricky, since the body is a highly complex system that is designed to handle a wide range of situations. Trying to mimic the situation that will give the desired results seems to be quite a challenge.

My suggestion would be to eat in the way that makes you feel the best. For example, although I love sugar and carbohydrates, I love even more the absence of creaky knees and puffy joints, and the absence of certain skin conditions. I also really love the idea of avoiding amputations of fingers and toes, the inevitable consequence of the diabetes that runs rampant in my family. Although I’m not nearly as thin as I’d prefer to be, the 80 lbs./36 kg of fat I lost restored my ability to engage in certain activities I’d feared I’d never be able to undertake again. So the upshot is that, although I’d love to be eating glazed doughnuts, I don’t want to go where that will take me. And I know it’s someplace I can avoid, if I just eat in a way that encourages my body not to go there.

#21

Oh yes, don’t worry - I’m not about to deviate from carnivore and start eating SAD.

I really am super patient and before I had Covid, I felt really well within myself - the best I’ve felt in years. I also trusted my instincts when I had Covid and ate things that weren’t in my usual diet (but were still carnivore) - because I believe very strongly in being led by our bodies, and I figured I was seeking out certain vitamins. This theory seems to be right, seeing as now I take certain supplements, I no longer have the cravings.

My pondering is more about the specifics of carnivore, and whether what I’m currently doing is optimal for weightloss - it makes no odds to me whether I eat, for instance, a steak for lunch or a block of butter and 1/3 of a steak for lunch, and they have very different macro ratios.

I just feel a little anxious that I don’t want to tread water if it’s something I can adjust - and higher fat is something that keeps coming up in carnivore circles of late, especially for women. I know Kelly Hogan has done higher fat recently, and her ketone levels were above 0.8.

Just thinking out loud, really; I know it’s not something other people can answer. :slight_smile:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #22

That you’ll have to experiment to figure out. Amber O’Hearn feels that many carnivores are not getting enough fat, for example, but people’s protein needs vary so greatly, that others may do better with proportionately more protein.

It also tends to be unclear whether someone is talking about fat:protein as a proportion of calories, or in terms of their relative weights. This is important, because 69% fat, 31% protein by calories is 1:1 by weight. So when someone advises 2:1 fat to protein, do they mean twice as much fat by weight, or slightly less fat than protein by weight (which would be 66%:33% of calories)?

#23

Whenever I saw this ratio, that was the case but indeed, it’s best to be clear.
I would use whatever is good for me anyway… And our protein and energy need is so individual that 2:1 in general doesn’t seem a good idea even for the ones who have problems with higher protein… But maybe I base this on myself: my body doesn’t care about the ratio much as long as I enjoy my food, get enough protein and a decent amount of (not too little, not too much) calories. With my indiividual needs and tastes it gives me a smallish range. 2:1 is out of question but I do need high protein so I don’t have a problem with it.

@Septimius: Good luck for 2023! Hopefully I will do my first long carni trial and get results myself :wink: I experimented a lot in the last years so I have an idea what to do and suspect what I am able to do (much more/better than before)…

(Linda ) #24

I discovered an medical article two days ago talking about rising blood sugar low ketones and its to do with insulin and glycogen when our insulin goes too low our blood sugar rises they say it’s not the amount of protein. Per say but our insulin drops too low …the smaller meals less protein seem to stop it from happening not sure why but I too was like you with low ketone numbers but after doing this for weeks now ketones 3 or higher its not that we been doing it too long to read ketone numbers I think its we keep our insulin too low and that’s causing issues and if we making glucose we not making ketones

#25

If you’ve still got the article to hand, @Azi I’d love to read it (no problem if not!).

Really great to read you getting 3 consistently after all this time. I read lots where people said low numbers were a consequence of being on keto/carnivore for a long time, but given Kelly’s numbers, that didn’t seem quite right.

Are you doing multiple meals a day? I’m currently doing 2 (1pm and 6pm with a long fast overnight) but they’re big meals, so maybe 3 or 4 smaller meals would suit me better.