Once fat adapted, are we always fat adapted?

(Chris) #1

ETA: somehow things got off track so I’ve revised the question hoping I can get more specific answers.:blush:

Hi all! New to these forums but not new to Keto. Been on/off for a few years now (read my bio for more info) My question is about fat adaptation (FA) as I am training for a race in Oct.
I was keto for 4 weeks then fell off the wagon on Sunday and been eating carbs ever since (5 days) Thought I screwed it all up but found rhis forum & now I’m wondering after reading posts on here, if I can just pick up where I left off (re: fat adaption process) if I get back to strict keto asap? (I do less than 20g net/day) Will my fat adaptation process continue on, or am I back to square one?
TIA and any advice is much appreciated!! Chris

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #2

If it’s just one day, you’re probably fine almost immediately. If you are not already fat-adapted, then you’ve delayed full adaptation by a day or two, probably, but not all that much. I wouldn’t worry about it.

By October, if you stay low-carb/keto, you should be fully fat-adapted, so again, I wouldn’t worry about it. That said, some racers are reluctant to put their explosive power in jeopardy, even if they have regained their endurance, but that’s a call only you can make. Just how important is this race to you? And how important is metabolic health?

(UsedToBeT2D) #3

I slipped yesterday at work, a vendor brought deli sandwiches and bags of potato chips. I ate one chip, and then I ate the whole single serving bag…I felt like I caved…KCKO.
Processed foods are just evil…like opium. You can’t eat just one.

(Jane) #4

I could bypass doughnuts and pastries and rolls all day long but potato chips are my kryptonite. I can even eat a few fries and stop.

But one day I caved at work and opened a bag of potato chips with the intention of eating “a couple”. Heh. Same result as you - whole bag.

Oh well. It is a rare thing so no big deal. Back to keto. To me that is different than when I intentionally plan to eat a higher carb meal. I go right back to keto the next day w/o skipping a beat or feeling bad. But that loss of control bothered me a bit. Guess it proves I am human. LOL

(Jane) #5

And you are right about processed food being evil! When I eat a higher carb day it is real food, not processed.

#6

Some people can do it :wink:
Not me and I have this relationship with almost any food I eat. I start to get a bit better but I tend to eat up all my food unless it’s a really big amount or the type I always eat little from… Processed or not, it doesn’t matter much, well I actually have a harder time with processed stuff as it’s usually way too salty for me. Or sweet if it’s that kind. Both can be helped with adding things but if it’s too salty, I usually need a lot of satiating food along with it… I don’t even know how I could eat chips (I didn’t try in the last years and I changed a lot since)… With a glass of water after every few pieces? With a ton of sour cream? There are options. But why bother? (Potato flavor is awesome but it doesn’t mean I must have it every year or something. In my case, the CRUNCH is the nearly irresistible part. I am all for crunchy things and I still can’t make perfectly crunchy biscuits. Carnivore ones, of course but I can’t make any type of crunchy biscuits so it’s not really a limitation. But I won’t lose. My last batch was a bit crunchy and tasted good.)

About fat adaptation… I can just guess what mine did but it seemed to me that I would need some long carby time for it to go away and I can’t do that. Some low-carb off keto times or 1-2 carbier days couldn’t do the trick, it seems, my fat adaptation changes stayed with me. Maybe it’s not like this for everyone, I don’t know.
I heard that before fat adaptation going off keto just delays it a little, you don’t need to start at the very beginning again…

(Robin) #7

I hope they were at least wonderful greasy salty Lays Original Chips.

(David Cooke) #8

Everyone is different but I am sort of doubting that you can get into a stable fat burning mode after four weeks. I think our body will, initially, happily regress into being a pig about carbs.
After three years Keto/low carb the occasional fall from grace no longer seems to present my body with a problem, next day I’ll be back in there. That will involve a 24 hour fast if I can fit it in, not as punishment but as a kind of insurance.
Running at an aerobic pace is an excellent way of burning fat, whether in ketosis or not, so I shouldn’t worry too much.

(Butter Withaspoon) #9

If you felt well adapted after 4 weeks, hitting that happy endless energy when doing a long training session, then it probably won’t take long to get the adaptation again if you go under 20g. It might be a few days to a few weeks. My guess is that you wouldn’t be back to square one.
If you were still in the sluggish adaptation phase before the carb days, then you could be close to square one again. It depends how damaged your metabolism is from your life until this point.

Keep at it. Because unless you’re going to win $ in your race, it is SO worth it to train your fat adaptation now! Any blips in the process, don’t worry, it happens to most people, just KCKO

(Joey) #10

@Ketochris73 +1 to what @PaulL said above.

Since you’re training for an athletic event, this book might be of particular interest: “The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance” by Phinney & Volek.

Science :+1:

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #11

The title of this thread hasn’t actually been addressed, and the answer is that if you stop eating keto and return to the diet that damaged your metabolism, you will eventually experience the same damage all over again. It’s like showering: if you stop showering, you eventually lose all the benefits of being clean that showering gives you.

The point is that we begin life well-adapted to metabolising fatty acids, and it is following the dietary recommendations that causes us to lose our fat-adaptation. So when we go keto, we are actually returning to a previous state of which we had deprived ourselves, not gaining something new.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #12

So-called ‘fat adaptation’ really means metabolic flexibility. We never lose the ability to metabolize glucose, although glucose metabolism can and does get messed up in many folks and causes most of the negative metabolic issues currently rampant in the general population.

What you’re asking, though, is once metabolic flexibility extends to fats/ketones again - keep in mind you had it as a prenatal and infant until weaning from mom’s milk - can you ‘lose it’ again. The answer is yes, you can. If you don’t remain consistently in ketosis your cell mitochondria will once again lose their ability to metabolize fats and ketones. If you’re constantly eating mostly glucose in the form of carbs, then why would your cells maintain flexibility? How long it takes to lose metabolic flexibility is very likely an individual thing. But if you’re constantly in/out of ketosis, then your metabolic flexibility to metabolize fats and ketones remains relatively inefficient even if you have it. If you’re mostly in ketosis and only once in a while out, then it’s more stable - but, still, it’s way better to stay consistently in ketosis than not. Ketones are good stuff in and of themselves healthwise. Carbs and glucose not so much. Glucose is only necessary for those few cells that don’t contain mitochondria. It takes a very small amount of glucose to maintain those cells. Flooding yourself with ingested glucose in the form of carbs upsets everything.

PS: I just edited this a bit to replace ‘carbs’ with ‘glucose’. Because metabolic flexibility is about glucose. ‘Carbs’ are just another word for glucose. Humans evolved eating fat and meat and generating glucose from gluconeogenesis - not eating it. Lots of folks mistakenly think 'metabolic flexibility is about what’s on your plate, and it’s not. It’s about what your cells are converting to energy.

(Chris) #13

I already have that book and I love it But it doesn’t address a slip up during the adaptation phase which is why I’m asking my question here hoping for other people’s experiences. Thanks!

(Joey) #14

Excellent - then you’re in fine shape.

Your own particular n=1 path forward, given the unique factors you bring to the table and the amounts of food and extent of fat-adaption up to that point will all work themselves into the mix.

In short, the answer is unknowable until you see what happens. :wink: Let us know.

(Chris) #15

Thank you everyone for the replies, I have a better sense of things now! I will keep u posted