Olive oil and olives


#1

For the last couple of days I’ve been eating about 20 olives per day. Is this bad? I prefer them to olive oil itself. But for the last couple days nothing has come through me… could the olives be causing some kind of blockage?

Also, would you say 20 Kalamata olives is equal to a tablespoon or more of olive oil?

Lastly does olive oil make protein hard to digest by causing it so slow down so much thus increasing a chance of constipation? Would I be better off with coconut oil or butter with my mackerel instead of the oil? I eat a half an avocado with it as well so I am getting a lot of fiber. Coconut oil and butter seem to make my reflux worse which is why I choose the olive oil. I don’t know why things have gotten stuck :confused:


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #2

Eating olives is only bad if they push your carb count above the limit needed for you to stay in ketosis.

I seriously doubt that the olives are blocking you up. The fat they contain should, if anything, grease the skids, so to speak. After all, people find that the fat in MCT oil has a pronounced laxative effect, if they are not careful. It’s far more likely that your ketogenic diet, with much less carbohydrate, leaves less residue for your body to expel.

If you are feeling a need to move your bowel, but straining produces no result, then try increasing your salt intake. It may very well help. On the other hand, if you are not feeling a need to move your bowel, then you are fine. I urinate every day, but I no longer need to move my bowel every day, and that is the experience of many people on a ketogenic diet.

The notion that we must move our bowel every day is a myth originally propagated by laxative manufacturers trying to create a market for their product. My mother received her nursing training before the commercial laxative products were put on the market, and she was a big proponent of letting the body do as it wished. Her view made sense to me, so I have always followed it.

Olive and coconut oil contain mostly saturated and monounsaturated fats, though they do contain significantly more polyunsaturated fats than butter, tallow, or lard, which have very little. You may find that fibre is a detriment, rather than a help, on a ketogenic diet. This is very individual, however; we have many members who feel that fibre is essential to their digestive systems, and just as many who feel that they are far better off without it.

I have read posts on these forums claiming that acid reflux is actually a condition of not enough stomach acid, rather than too much. People say that a bit of vinegar or lemon juice taken with a meal can help. I haven’t seen any studies about this, but I doubt it could hurt to give it a try.


#3

Thanks for the info. Would you say saturated fat is important for keto? I don’t think I’m getting much. I tried to go dairy free including omitting butter, and I haven’t been doing the coconut oil lately. I do seem to feel more energy when I do the butter or coconut oil though.


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #4

The essence of a ketogenic diet is to keep carbohydrate intake low enough to avoid damage from elevated blood sugar and insulin. Carbohydrate stimulates a large insulin response, because blood sugar is damaging if it gets too high, and elevated insulin also causes damage to the body over time.

So a well-formulated ketogenic diet consists of low carbohydrate intake, reasonable protein intake, and then fat added to replace the energy lost from no longer eating glucose (carbohydrate). So fat is important as a source of energy. We don’t want too much, but we certainly don’t want too little. Recent research tends to show more and more that saturated fat and monounsaturated fat are the healthiest for us. We need a small amount of certain polyunsaturated fatty acids, but we don’t need too much of them. In fact, most oils are far too rich in ω-6 fatty acids, which cause systemic inflammation if we get too much of them.

Saturated fat in the diet can have a beneficial effect by raising HDL cholesterol (the so-called “good” cholesterol). In general cholesterol is over-hyped as a matter of concern, and we tend not to worry about it too much on a ketogenic diet. But the ratio of triglycerides to HDL is an indicator of cardiovascular risk, so a low ratio is a good thing. Cutting the carbs is mostly what lowers triglycerides, and saturated fat is known to raise HDL, so the chances are that a well-formulated ketogenic diet is going to lower our cardiovascular risk.

The human body runs on glucose and fatty acids. There is actually not much need for glucose, though certain cells cannot survive without it, and the body can make what little glucose we actually need. Fatty acids and ketone bodies (which are partially metabolised fats) are the other source of the body’s energy, and there is some indication that they may actually be a better fuel than glucose, since they generate slightly more ATP per gram than a gram of glucose does, and they have less potential for causing damage from oxidation and glycation. Polyunsaturated fatty acids are of concern, primarily because they can be inflammatory, but also because the seed oils (soybean, safflower, corn, sunflower, and the like) contain polyunsaturates that the body did not evolve to deal with well, and they can have bad effects when taken into cell walls, for example (all cell walls are made of fat and cholesterol).

If butter bothers you, you can try ghee, also known as clarified butter, which is pure fat with the milk solids removed. But do what makes you feel best. Avocadoes have a fair amount of saturated fat, and I suspect that you might be eating more than you realise. If you’d like to post your sample diet, people could look it over and give you their thoughts. Just remember that fat is not magical, but it is the macronutrient that causes the lowest insulin response. We don’t want a lot of insulin, but we do need some, or we’d starve to death. Fat stimulates only enough insulin secretion for the body to benefit from, which is why we recommend it as the primary energy source. The body doesn’t like to use protein for energy, because it is important for building tissues.


(Bob M) #5

I have seen others who thrive on eating butter first in a meal, then meat second. They say they get feeling of energy surplus when doing this. If this is applicable to you, you might try that.

But there’s no “need” for saturated fat on this diet.


#6

According to the USDA database the total PUFA content of the following by percentage are:

Palm Kernel Oil: 0.834
Cream Cheese: 1.483
Macademia Nuts:1.500
Whipping Cream:1.570
Coconut oil: 1.702
Butter: 3.043
Ghee: 3.694
Tallow: 4.000
Egg Yolk: 4.204
Bacon Fat: 5.838
Lard: 11.200
Cod Liver: 22.541

In all, linoleic acid C18:2 constitutes 90% or more of the total PUFAs.

For comparison generic ‘extra virgin’ olive oil contains 9.070% PUFAs; and ‘black’ olives (including kalamata) contain 0.629% PUFAs.


(Bob M) #7

Not sure some of those are correct, particularly anything from pigs or chickens. Brad estimates these are 15-25% PUFAs:

http://firebrandmeats.com/why-low-pufa-pork/

And he has data comparing results of his pork to "normal’ pork, but I think those might be on Twitter. But they show pretty high levels of PUFAs in pork fat.


#8

I was just getting ready to try canned cod liver for the first time today. I mostly plan to eat the oil and probably skip the liver but I might try it. I am a little scared to do this. I am low on vitamin A retinol and haven’t been eating eggs, and since I’m pescatarian cod liver oil seemed like a good choice, and full of fats. Are you saying this is inflammatory because of all the PUFAs?

I mainly eat a diet of mackerel, sardines, avocados, olives, oilve oil, pecans, tomatoes, various greens, onions, sometimes butter and coconut oil. I don’t really have varied types of protein because I’m choosing the fattiest seafood I can while trying to boost my b12.


#9

@anon69861679 I just posted the numbers from the USDA database. I don’t know anything about inflammation.


#10

PaulL commented they were immflamatory. I have a diet high in PUFA according to the database - mackerel and now canned cod liver


#11

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #12

Ω-6’s are definitely inflammatory, in quantity. But there is obviously a safe quantity that we can eat, because ω-6’s are also essential to health.

There are a couple of researchers who claim that the PUFA’s in the industrial seed oils are damaging to the human body, most likely because, evolutionarily speaking, they are new to the body. We did not evolve eating them.

How the PUFA’s in olives would compare to those in meat (our primary source of PUFA’s over the two million years of human evolution), I have no idea, unfortunately. It is possible that they are not so foreign to the human body as PUFA’s from cotton seeds, soy beans, safflower seeds, corn, cornflower seeds, and the like.

But then again, olive oil has only become a food for people in the past few centuries; in classical antiquity it was used only as a cosmetic and a lamp fuel. The main cooking fats used by the Greeks and Romans back then were butter, lard, and tallow.


#13

But what about the PUFA in cod liver oil (unprocessed from a can of cod liver)? I can’t imagine this would be imflammatory.


(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #14

Again, it would depend on the amount of ω-6 fatty acids contained in the oil, and how much of that oil you consumed in a given day, together with all the ω-6 fatty acids you consume from other sources.

Let me state again that, while ω-6 fatty acids are essential to the human body, when we consume too much ω-6 fatty acids from all sources in our diet, especially linoleic acid, that causes inflammation.

The other essential fatty acids are ω-3 fatty acids, by the way, but I don’t believe they cause inflammation. At least, I haven’t heard that they do. But another reason to cut back on ω-6 consumption is that ω-6 and ω-3 fats compete with each other for the receptors in the cell walls. If we are not getting them in roughly equal amounts, the ω-6 fatty acids apparently crowd out the ω-3’s.

ETA: If the oil in the can is not just from the cod livers but also from added soybean oil, then that is likely to increase the ω-6 content considerably.


#15

oh, I should have said it is canned it it’s own oil. There’s no added oil.