OK - I'm Really Confused About Workouts


#21

I am just an old woman who has been unwell in varying degrees for the last 20+ years and is slowly regaining health and strength. All my muscles have pretty much atrophied over time much of the time I was glad just to be able to walk at all.

I have been slowly extending my walks, although it doesn’t compare to what other people do by far yet. I also have some 8 pound hand weights I used to use before I became ill so long ago. I have been picking them up two or three times a day, doing very simple movements with them for just a minute or until I feel strained. After just a week of this, I feel a lot stronger with my arms and upper body. To me, it’s not so much a workout, but gradual rehab, which I suppose is a much different thing. It doesn’t seem to affect my metabolism so far, if anything, I feel like being more active.


(Stephen Judd) #22

You may be interested in this workout from Drew Baye which is extremely safe and simple:


(Central Florida Bob ) #23

Basically how it feels is the end point of a movement is always the hardest, so it requires the most force. That makes sense for some movements, and it seems like less sense for others.

Take doing an upper arm curl with a dumb bell; the feel is hardest when your arm is around midway - parallel to the floor. When your arm is bent to a small angle and the weight is almost at your shoulder, the effort goes way down - it almost falls toward you. With the elastic bar, that last few degrees is the hardest.

Is that good? I sure don’t know.


(Central Florida Bob ) #24

For posterity if anyone is researching Bowflex machines, I redid some of this work and I got very different results. My first measurements weren’t nice to Bowflex and I feel like I should correct it.

I have good quality fishing scale I use. It’s old, but a good name scale that’s marked in 1/2 lb increments. On the other hand, it’s not any kind of calibrated standard.

Taking the 50 pound rods, I measured one side. If the labeling was for both sides, they should measure 25 lbs. They get to 20 lbs when the hardware on the cable is going into the pulley. For several exercises I do, they don’t get to that limit and short of changing the length of cables I don’t see how to make it. On the pull downs I do, I measured 16 pounds or 64% from memory of what the position looks like. That means when I pull down the full set of bands on the thing, instead of pulling down the 200 pounds it’s marked I’m really pulling down 128. That’s an enormous difference.

It might be possible to make that harder by shifting to an exercise position that moves the elastic bars farther, but for things like a bench press, there’s a limit based on my size and the position the machine puts me into. My rough guess is my bench press is only around 150.


(Keith C) #25

Fla BobI am glad there are new workout adventures still ahead and one day if I am worthy or as bold as the fellows here experimenting or successfully doing the BBS and BFR styles I have never heard of til now, hats off to you guys for stepping. That’s amazing. I may be too old to try but you never know with me.

Since we are in the same age group-60-ish maybe there are some commonalities I will share. I “hear” you about being able to safely move weighted objects you may buy from the big box stores, or moving large 20 gallon planters around to 2 tons of rock from the quarry to finish off the cinder block retaining wall to finally completing the 86’ french drain. Then there’s pool work shouldering the long skimmer net around the 18’x36’ pool. It’s a job.

Safety and ergonomics or lifting correctly if your muscles and joints are still bearing is the key for me.
My advice is to look https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmTe0LsfEbpkDpgrxKAWbRA
This link on youtube is Bob and Brad physical therapists with 2.5million followers, yet they have as many exercises for strength,rehabilitation as they are entertaining to me at least and best of all they are free. They have a 1 minute concise or compressed version if you don’t have time for there longer explanations on instagram and pinterest I think. Best of all it’s free and it requires work and research to find your needs. They have 100’s of best evidence practices/videos from a physical therapy and orthopedic standpoint in my opinion. They use bands and other equipment they promote but mostly stuff you can fashion at home.

The last link is from an old school master who is still around and he has a free newsletter you can subscribe if you like his message.http://www.senior-exercise-central.com/ He will answer emails too. A real class act. His dieting suggestions are less than what is demonstrated here, when it comes to best evidence diets this forum seems to be spot on.

Thanks for letting me chime in and I hope to keep up on my newbie entrance into ketogenic eating with the info here.


(Central Florida Bob ) #26

Thanks for the recommendations, Keith @keithchh. I’ve had a few occasions to spend an hour a day with a physical therapist and have a lot of respect for them. The other site looks good, too, although I confess to wincing at “senior” :grin:

By coincidence this thread is a few months old and I’ve been looking over my progress since then. I’ve put on a couple of pounds of muscle since I got going with regular weight lifting (around the first of the year), along with a couple of pounds of fat, and I find that I seem to do best on the once a week schedule from Body By Science. I’m conscious of trying to work my machine properly and consistently. I guess I spend a lot of time thinking about form since the Bowflex resistance is giant springs and if you move the spring less distance you get less resistance. I’m just as concerned with form when I use dumbbells for a couple of exercises.

I crossed five years on keto (that I’m sure of) in April, and find it easy to stick with, but anything new requires learning new habits and addressing old ones. Good luck with getting going!


(Keith C) #27

Bob, as you said being Ketogenic for 5 years is supporting what I am not only glad to hear, is during the short time it is doable!

I was very fortunate even as a newbie to discover such a powerful food choice and the almost complete deletion of a whole category of excessive carb loaded foods (excepting the necessary fiber,low carb natural greens,berries,nuts and more fats,less protein)that equate to roller coasting eating and living that became untenable since I am not engaged in a strenuous occupation any longer nor was that sustainable.

I am astounded that burning fat actually affects,empowers,once past the Keto hurdles of adding electrolytes-homemade version, and of course other substitutes a more natural response to living. Not going back to “crackahydrates”, I shall carry on and keep calm when necessary. Cheers everyone

P.S. For one thing I was very fortunate to have to lose only a few lbs. and not have any health issues other than aging.


(Kenny Croxdale) #28

Exercise and Calorie Burning

The key to weight loss, regardless of the diet, comes down to consuming fewer calories than you need.

Exercise really does not burn that many calories. As the sayings go, ,

“You cannot out train a bad diet”

and

“Ab are made in the kitchen”.

Limited Effect of Increasing Muscle Mass

Increasing muscle mass only slightly increase metabolic rate. Research shows that a pound of muscle increases the metabolic rate by around 80 calories per day.

That adds up over time but only incrementally to really affect a decrease in body fat/body weight.

Maintaining Muscle Mass

One of the main benefits of exercise is that it preserves muscle mass. It comes down to “Use it or lose it.”

In other words, muscle mass decreases when it isn’t worked/trained.

Not training in conjunction with not consuming enough protein per meal, are the two primary reasons as individual age they lose muscle mass and strength.

As the saying goes, “Strong people are harder to kill”. They are less likely to fall and not be able to be up, like you see on the TV ads.

Secondly, exercise increases Insulin Sensitivity.

[quote=“atomicspacebunny, post:11, topic:100061”]If I don’t eat enough carbs with protein and fat I burn up muscle tissue; constantly lifting weights and that slows down my metabolism.

But that’s just how my body works.[/quote]

Misinformation

On a Ketogenic Diet, as well as Intermittent Fast of up to 72 (based on research) muscle mass is preserved. The body’s primary source of fuel is body fat.

The majority of individual have plenty of body fat, regardless of how lean they are.

As an example, a friend of mine is a distance runner who weights 145 lbs at around 10% body fat.

That means, he had around 14.5 lb of body fat, which means he has approximately 50,750 calories of body fat (14.5 lbs of body fat X 3500 kcal per pound of fat).

Burning ketones/body fat protects and preserves muscle mass. Research by Volek and Phinney demonstrates that Leucine (the anabolic amino acid) is higher with individual on the Ketogenic Diet, as well as in Acute Fasting States.

Avoiding Exercise

This takes us back to, “Use it or lose it”.

When muscles are not worked/trained, they atrophy (decrease in size and strength).

That is one of the issues with individuals who let’s say are have a cast put on their leg. The muscles in leg with the cast shrinks in size and strength.

Summary

Science and anecdotal data clearly show this is how your body, everyone’s body works.

Kenny Croxdale


(Bunny) #29

Whatever I’m doing seems to be working flawlessly, I could not imagine getting any bigger in the skeletal muscle arena if I constantly pumped iron.

Seems to match up?

”…One gram of dietary fat equals nine calories, and one pound of stored fat provides approximately 3,600 calories of energy. This calorie density (the highest of all nutrients), along with our seemingly unlimited storage capacity for fat, makes it our largest reserve of energy. …” … More


(Kenny Croxdale) #30

The Facts

You appear to be someone who embraces facts. With that in mind, let’s look at…

  1. Exercise: Exercise can assist in fat/weight loss. However, exercise and increasing muscle mass are dramatically over rated when it come it increasing you metabolic rate.

  2. Preserving Muscle Mass: One of the primary benefits of exercise is it preserves muscle mass.

Muscle atrophy naturally occurs with aging. Thus, the “Use it or lose it” is true.

Muscle mass decreases in individual who don’t exercise or do very little exercise.

  1. Increasing Muscle Mass: Any increased in muscle mass, especially for women, is hard to do.

“Pumping Iron” for you or most women isn’t going make you bigger.

As this picture illustrates, the mass of one pound of muscle is dramatically smaller than a pound of muscle.

That is why individual with a higher percentage of muscle mass look lighter than an individual with a higher percentage of body fat.

[quote=“atomicspacebunny, post:29, topic:100061”]
Seems to match up?

”…One gram of dietary fat equals nine calories, and one pound of stored fat provides approximately 3,600 calories of energy. This calorie density (the highest of all nutrients), along with our seemingly unlimited storage capacity for fat, makes it our largest reserve[/quote]

The Math

Calculating the number of “Fat Calories” that you have is simple math.

As the illustration of my distance runner friend who weighs around 145 lbs at about 10% body fat demonstrates, we all have an abundant amount of body fat available for fuel.

Fasting Research

72 Hour Fast: Research shows body fat is the primary fuel used in a 72 hour fast.

Muscle mass is preserved during a 72 hour fast; especially the amino acid, Leucine which is the “Anabolic Amino Acid”. Research Volek/Phinney.

Summary

  1. Exercise and increasing muscle mass plays a smaller role in lowing weight than most believe.

  2. Muscle Atrophy occurs with age. A consistent exercise program ensure muscle mass is maintained and can be increased

  3. Pumping Iron doe not make women bulky or that muscular. Muscle mass is dramatically smaller than body fat.

If two individual weight the same, the individual with greater muscle mass will look smaller than the individual with the higher percentage of body fat.

Kenny Croxdale


(Bunny) #31

Really? …glad you carefully put the word “…most“ in their?

But thank you for the info, I’m sure I will find it reliably useful! :thinking:


(Bob M) #32

You had me until here. Supposedly, Ted Naiman weighs the same in these pictures:


(Kenny Croxdale) #33

This takes an enormous amount of dedication and effort. plus some good genetics.

This isn’t going to occur with your program or most women.

Kenny Croxdale


(Bunny) #34

Says Who?


(Kenny Croxdale) #35

Naiman did a nice job or “Remodeling”.

However, the picture below demonstrates why most individual who are fat look heavier than someone at the same weight/height that are muscular.

image

Muscle doesn’t weigh more than fat

People often state that fat weighs more than muscle. What they mean is that fat (as pictured above) has more “bulk” than muscle.

Thus, it appears that a pound of fat pound weighs more than a pound of muscle.

As per the article…

“The simple answer is, it’s false. One pound is 16 ounces regardless of what the tissue type or product is,” said [Roberta Anding] a registered dietitian, sports dietitian and assistant professor in the [Joseph Barnhart Department of Orthopedic Surgery] at Baylor. “So, for example, a pound of marshmallows will occupy more space than a pound of raisins, but each weighs a pound.”

"The key is that the way you look is going to be influenced by the type of tissue in your body, Anding said. Muscle is more compact than fat, so if you gain lean body mass, it is firm and occupies less space than fat."

Presenting The Information

I simply present the facts and information.

What you decide to believe is up to you.

With that said, don’t take my word nor anyone else’s on things like this.

Do you’re own research and come to you own conclusions.

Kenny Croxdale


(Kenny Croxdale) #36

Science and anecdotal data.

As Dr Craig Marker said, “Your feeling (what you think) doesn’t matter, Facts do.”

Kenny Croxdale


(Old Baconian) #37

It might be better to use the term “bulk” instead of “mass.” Fat is less dense than muscle, so a kilo of fat will be bulkier than a kilo of muscle, yet they both have the same mass.

Please forgive this correction. I offer it simply because the terms “mass” and “weight” have specific meanings in science.

As for Bob’s post, I agree that Dr. Naiman looks a lot bulkier in the after picture, than he did in the before. But it would appear that much of his fat was visceral, because it doesn’t show. He was evidently what doctors call a TOFI (thin on the outside, fat on the inside).


(Kenny Croxdale) #38

Bulk it is.

Reminds of “Light Years” being a measure of distance not time.

Thanks,

Kenny Croxdale


(Bob M) #39

Getting back to the original question, what I do is perform an exercise until I cannot do it anymore. I think @240lbfatloss discussed the “burn”. I’ve been lifting weights and exercising since I was 15? 14? 16?, and I’m now 56. After 40+ years (and perhaps keto has something to do with this, too?), I don’t get a burn. Pretty much never. And I also very rarely feel any effect the day afterward. Has to be a new exercise to cause that.

I’ll give you can example of how my current “body weight” exercise is structured, using chest as an example. I put my left hand on a soccer ball and my right hand on the mat I’m using and do pushups. I do as many as I can (only 4 last time). Then I switch hands, ball right, left on ground and do as many as I can (4 again).

Then, I put my left hand 90 degrees from my body and try to put most of my weight on my right hand, then do as many pushups as I can (10 last time). I take a short break and switch, right hand at 90 degrees.

I then do one arm pushups (other arm behind my back), but on the third stair of a staircase. Do as many of these as I can do, one arm at a time. Same, on 4th stair. Forget how many, but only 3 or 4.

Then I put on a “helper” device that goes over both arms and my chest. It’s springy and helps support my shoulder. I do regular pushups (10?), then put my feet on a stool and do more (4?), then do pushups on step 2 (4?) then on step 4 (3?). Each time, as many as I can do.

Finally, I do “dips” (with help from my feet – shoulders still weak) or TRX cable pushups, body positioned relatively high. Do as many as I can do.

Do this once per week. Two days later, I do the one arm sets of pushups I outlined above.

That’s it for the week.

You have to realize that I’ve always worked out like this. I never had time to spend in the gym, so I always did shorter, more intense workouts. Then, I would have some “sets”, so I might do 3 sets of bench press for instance, then incline or decline or dips or whatever. (Back then, I could do dips with extra weight.) Now, the difference is that I go until I can’t go, and if I was going bench (can’t due to shoulders), I would do one set until I couldn’t lift any more (might be dangerous!).

Anyway, this is what I do now. It might change at any moment.


(Kenny Croxdale) #40

Arnold And "The Burn"

As Arnold said in the movie, “Staying Hungry”, “You cannot grow without the Pump (the burn).”

There is some validity in that It has to do with…

Lactate

Lactate build up in the muscles produces a downstream anabolic effect, triggering muscle growth.

Lactate build up occurs with…

Moderate Repetitions, Sets, Loads and Short Rest Periods

A muscle contraction shuts off Venus Blood Flow back to the heart in an exercise. It is a form of Occlusion Training.

Blood is trapped in the muscles producing "The Pump, burn. The burn occurs due to a build up of lactate in the muscles.

Sets of 8 Repetitions or higher traps more blood in the muscles. Short rest period between sets, ensure more blood remains trapped in the muscles; less blood is allows to return back to the heart.

Think of “The Pump” like blowing up a balloon. The more you puff into the balloon (more reps that you perform) the larger the balloon (muscle gets).

Taking shorter rest periods between repetitions, ensure a greater percentage of the blood remains in the muscles.

As with blowing up a balloon, you don’t want too much air to escape from the balloon between breath of blowing it up.

Low Repetitions

Lower repetitions don’t really produce much lactate, “The Pump”.

You should obtain more of a “Pump” if you perform 8 repetition or more per set.

A Springy Help Devise

Sound like you are talking about a…

Sling Shot

This or whatever you have is a good device. It allows you to overload the muscles in a Push Up through a greater range of the movement.

This device works for…

Ascending Strength Exercises

These are exercises (like Push Ups) that are hard at the bottom and easy at the top.

Research show that in an exercise like the Push Up, the first 1/3 of the movement is overload. The remaining 2/3 of the Push Up is underloaded.

Muscles need to be overloaded to increase size and strength, at some point in training.

Thus, a spring device allows to increase that loading at the top of the movement.

Finishing off your Push Up Training Session (after your lower repetitions) with higher repetitions is very effective for increasing strength, increasing muscle mass and promoting recovery.

You’ll get more progression if you do a long set at the end of a training session
https://www.ergo-log.com/longset.html

“The present results demonstrated the effects of an additional set of low-intensity exercise immediately after a high-intensity, low-repetition exercise in gaining muscular strength and endurance, suggesting its usefulness in the strength protocol”…

Intensity Vs Volume Training

Both are necessary for increasing strength and muscle mass.

With that said, some individuals respond better to higher intensity training with a little less volume, like myself.

Other individuals respond better with higher volume and slightly less intensity…

Goldilocks

It’s like the story of Goldilocks, you need to experiment and find out which one works best for you.

Kenny Croxdale