Nova the truth about fat

(Richard M) #1

On my pbs channel tonight there is A NOVA show on titled “the truth about fat”. 8:00 central time.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #2

That will be very interesting. Keep us posted.

(Bob M) #3

There’s a transcript here:

(Richard M) #4

The show is also on YouTube.

Fat was lumped in with carbs as the reason for weight gain. Decreasing carb intake was never mentioned. Some experts made mention of having genetic issues for weight gain. Because it is not “our fault” for weight gain. They kept mentioning decreasing calories as a way to lose weight. But that theory was not supported when Tanzania people, walking 5-9 miles a day, was using just the same amount calories as a guy doing no exercise. And the saddest part was having bariatric surgery was a major solution to lose weight. They went on to say those that got the surgery lost the weight and kept it off. My opinion -“that is BS”. Just seeing and hearing people who have had the surgery and all gained their weight back.

They mentioned, most if not all, “Biggest Loser” gained all their weight back or more. They had those people consuming under 1000 calories and working out for hours.

If I was desperate to lose weight and watched this show, looking for answers, I would be so confused. They had no definitive answer.

(Laurie) #5

Thank you for the report. Sounds like it was just a lot of interesting (or confusing) tidbits.

(Bob M) #6

One of the people was Herman Pontzer, who wrote this book:

His theory is that our calorie “output” is fixed. If you exercise more, your body finds way to use fewer calories in the time you’re exercising.

I have not read the book, but do want to read it.

In many ways, though, it fits with my anti-CICO philosophy, and a lot of studies too: you really can only burn so many calories, regardless of what you’re doing.

While I like exercise, I’ve never not exercised unless I’ve been injured. Didn’t prevent me from getting fat. Doesn’t seem to help me get lean. It’s really the ability to be less hungry that seems to be key. Keto helps with that, but for some of us, doesn’t cure everything.

#7

It’s very, very obviously isn’t true… Good luck to use a very negative amount of kilocalories for normal bodily functions when running an ultramarathon in the frost or something :wink:
And people do use exercise to maintain or lose fat when it just can’t happen without it. And many of us have a wide range of maintenance calories, our CO obviously changes.
But everyone may think whatever as long as it doesn’t affect others too much.
I just thought it’s so glaringly obvious that CO do change. We see it in so many places, people lie and eat less in hospital, very hard workers need more…
In modern times CO may be measured and it was done and changes were seen many times…

It is known that if we add some regular activity, our body tends to eventually optimize the energy use but it doesn’t mean we definitely ruin our metabolism if we have extreme exercise every day. As it’s too much energy to take away from our normal functions and expect everything will be just fine… The body doesn’t like wasting (though it may choose that route if we would get fat and unhealthy without it), our energy intake is needed for working right. When the metabolism slows down, it has negative effects.
People often overestimate used calories for activities, calculators do that too. And heavy workers don’t need THAT huge amount of food so it may hints at not expecting much from a tiny exercise session especially if we don’t even use many big muscles just depend on the calories burnt with the exercise itself…
Lots of people walk all day during work too, it’s not THAT much for the body. It optimizes. Very normal for a land mammal, walking is normal, some running too…

Of course because it’s very easy to eat it back and more. My experiences are the same, a little exercise (2 hours quick walk a day) and serious overeating doesn’t make me slim… It’s quite obvious, I never expected that miracle…

That helps a lot. Not enough for me as I never needed hunger or lack of satiation or appetite or need for food to eat a lot… But hunger is the “worst” (and compulsion but few people have strong compulsions regularly. I hope. maybe not).
Keto didn’t help with that but carnivore will be probably more helpful (after fat adaptation made some good changes) as long as I do things right… We will see but I had good days before on carnivore, I had massive overeating days on carnivore and now I think I figured out what to do. Keto definitely isn’t enough for many of us, we may need our own style.

By the way, exercise usually did good to my hunger, I used to eat less on exercise days. Of course, the best was when I went to a 9 hour hiking in frost and forgot to bring much food :smiley: I surely lost fat that day, I couldn’t eat it back on my only proper meal afterwards.
But I can imagine multiple ways where exercise lowers out calorie intake. I doubt it is an important reason it helps people to lose fat when it does but I never cared so much about statistics, more like interesting cases and surely some people exercise instead of boredom eating and it does good to them :wink: But we shouldn’t overestimate its help. And it easily can be fattening if one gets too hungry or decides now they totally deserves a cake… It’s individual but exercise may help. Or may not. And it’s usually not the key. But CICO is super complex, both CI and especially CO. Very different factors and it stays the same, how silly :smiley: It’s not how most people’s body work but maybe some have this interesting thing, who knows (until they don’t exercise too much)? Just like some people keep CI=CO all the time under normal circumstances. I only do it in a big range but that’s still nice, it is probably very annoying to eat the right amount or lose/gain fat. My SO can pull it off okay as he automatically eats right. His body counts CI better than mine and it does it per meal! And he is disciplined and vain enough to stand hunger, he needs that too, even at maintenance. It’s good we usually have more or less satiating food and options with timing, we can figure out how to avoid hunger (staying hungry. getting hungry regularly is nice, I always miss it when I don’t have it for a while) without eating too much!

(Alec) #8

Bob
I reckon you’ve nailed it here. This is my experience. I am just less hungry on carnivore than I have ever been previously. I sometimes worry that I am not eating enough, but I make sure that as soon as I feel even vaguely hungry I find some great carni food to eat.

But it usually doesn’t take much to fill me up these days. And then I am not hungry for many hours. I can eat dinner at 6pm, and then not be hungry again until 3pm the next day. In the meantime my body is chewing through bodyfat (slowly!).

And I reckon you are right about exercise. I am very sceptical that exercise helps much with weight loss… I think it is 95% what you eat that matters. But exercise is so good for all sorts of other things that it should be the next thing you do after eating the right stuff.

#9

Yes :slight_smile:
My original keto didn’t do that to me but I did eat too much carbs on it - but I went as low as I just could at that point! It turned out even those carbs made me hungrier and my desires tend to go haywire (it felt normal until carnivore as I always were like that).
I think many people have such experiences, even a little but not negligible amount of something may mess with us but we cut it out and things change drastically.

Not like I didn’t have hungry carni days but that’s not the norm unless I do serious mistakes. I just go back to carni and in a few days (or immediately) I change to my better state. What would happen if I could stick to it longer? I will do my best to find out.

That is what I never experienced and I guess never will but who knows? I either eat a bigger meal or I get hungry soon again. But it’s fine as long as I don’t eat too much or too many meals and I get my nutrients :slight_smile:

I think it’s 0-100%, depends on the person and situation (0 only means to me that it’s all up to exercise to lose fat, not that eating doesn’t matter, of course it matters A LOT, typically it’s the key but some people can’t really change that part to help fat-loss so if exercise can’t help, probably nothing can). We know that for some people exercise isn’t even 5%, rather a negative number… But someone who can’t eat even less (my body has these ideas about food intake and my actual bodyfat doesn’t seem to play a role) and it’s already their maintenance calories, I would think exercise may help. Or not but then it’s 0-0% and fail.

I think way too much about these things when I should sleep.

(Megan) #10

That’s disappointing. Fat plus carbs is the so-called food many people eating “western food” are addicted to and yes, it definitely causes weight gain in a lot of people. Fat with a very low carb intake is a totally different proposition.

(Bob M) #11

@Alecmcq I have learned that there are things I cannot eat because I always eat too much of them. Things like ice cream are obviously hard to control for many of us, but I found foods like bacon, nuts, yogurt with berries, butter, all of these things caused me to overeat.

Then, when I was trying The Croissant Diet (TKD), I would exercise, then eat a very high fat, s tarchy, high calorie lunch. (with lean meat too). It was the pandemic, but I was still going to work, even though my kids were learning from home. When I got home, I was not hungry at all, but would eat dinner with the family. I started with a tiny amount on my plate, would eat - then get hungrier, eat more… And end up eating a normal meal.

It was at that time I realized how much of a role things like hormones play. The mere act of eating for me causes hunger.

So, figuring out how to have satiety is what I’ve been trying to do lately.

I think this is one reason I’m still doing 36 hour fasts when I can - I actually get less hungry after the fast.

@Shinita I think his theory is correct. We’ve been taught for years that calories in are disconnected from calories out, but there is a ton of evidence against this. Saw a study where they tracked activity levels of kids, one group they made do activity at school, one group they did not. The activity levels were the same. Why? Because the ones that did activity in school did nothing when they got home, whereas the ones that did not do activity in school came home and freaked out, doing their activity at home.

And if you’ve ever cycled, or done other intense exercise, what you find is that you don’t do much at all after it. Not only that, but your resting heart rate decreases, you become more efficient while exercising, etc.

I think the idea that output is fixed makes sense.

#12

But it just seems your belief (and others’ of course), this last time you didn’t even wrote anything that hinted at it. But it doesn’t matter anyway as so many people experiences their CO is very much NOT the same. They even MEASURE it nowadays! CO changes and why wouldn’t it? But it may change way less we may think. And it’s all a mystery anyway (unless it’s measured with a special machine)… Most of us can’t possibly know our CO, changing or not. And it doesn’t change much in most cases. But I appreciate every little help :slight_smile: Even if I can’t measure and experience it, being so little.

Very right, I do the same since 12 years hoping I will be able to slim down one day… I feel I am close.
Of course, some people don’t need to bother with it much (see all the folks who just lower their carbs or skip a meal and it does the trick) and some people get satiated by almost everything just the same… Or volume is more important than macros… There are all kinds of people.
Eating triggers hunger is what both my SO and I and surely many people have. It makes sense to me but I am aware some people get satiated by a little something. It’s super weird to me when people get satiated by a small, almost no protein meal… But it makes sense that many people simply eat their protein in some meals, skipping some other meals. I can’t work like that but we are so very different.

(Joey) #13

If it’s the same one … This NOVA episode has aired previously and I had high hopes for it - being NOVA.

I was highly disappointed at the lack of scientific evidence for many of the 1970s-based pronouncements. I chalked it up to the usual reasons (see: any material prepared by Nina Teicholtz as to why “bad” nutritional science can prevail for so long).