Not Losing but Sticking to the Rules HARD

(Kirk Wolak) #42

There is:
What you eat, When you eat, Why you eat

And the real hint, is that this is your second time. I noticed you track your macros, but don’t tell us what they are. I will make 3 assumptions:

  1. You are using NET Carbs (Switch to total carbs)
  2. You are including dairy (this causes many people to stall)
  3. You are not “really” weighing your vegetables

Honestly, remove all dairy, please. Count Total Carbs. And if you are not losing weight, eat more fat/protein, and cut the carbs in HALF (from 20g to 10g). Give it 2 weeks.

Personally, I am at 5g or less, otherwise I do not maintain ketosis.
Also, if I eat the SAME Food in 3 meals, I am not in ketosis the next AM, but ONE meal is fine.

If I want to eat 2 meals, I have to cut that in half (for the day, so 1/4 per meal). Why? Every meal produces insulin.

Finally, if I eat after sunset, I am usually fighting high Glucose and low ketones in the morning! (again, a bigger dose of insulin).

Watch Dr. Boz, and/or Dr. Ken Berry on YouTube. They talk the basiscs.

Don’t laugh about the dairy. Even my stubborn neighbor who was doing fine, dropped the dairy recently, and then dropped 6lbs without trying! (Dairy is designed to make a calf gain 700 lbs)

Good Luck.

#43

If the deficit is too big, sure. We never should do that, not even in ketosis but it’s quite possible our body can handle a bigger deficit there as it access the fat easier… I think.
Many of us experienced that a decent calorie deficit on a carbier diet works well. My family members never saw any metabolism problem related to it (not like we know our energy need but there was no problem with losing and then going back to the more relaxed, higher-calorie normal woe). I accept that it doesn’t work for everyone, I can’t eat little enough normally either (be it low-carb or keto or carnivore. I just eat more than my tiny energy need most of the time in average) but it shouldn’t slow the metabolism. If it does for many, I am sorry for them - except if keto is great for them and they can stick to it without problems. I think many of us are glad to have difficulties with fat-loss and finding a better, healthier woe :wink: (Even if I never could lose much fat with it, I have no regrets.) But some of us never have this problem with calorie restricted carbier diets, that’s sure. Maybe our metabolism is more reluctant to slow down and we don’t do it long enough and even if it gets slower, it quickens very soon after? (And my high-calorie days might have helped too. My SO has no such ones while losing but he slims down quickly because he never has very much fat to lose and he always loses at a steady pace for some reason, his body responds to calorie deficit wonderfully. Even starving is less dangerous if it doesn’t last long but obviously it’s still quite bad.)

We never did low-fat diets though, it was always high-fat :slight_smile: If that matters :slight_smile:

Of course, we are ketoers here (at least most of the time), we can do this so we should use everything, it surely can’t hurt, it’s the opposite :smiley: But it’s not hard for everyone to lose fat on high-carb (or low-carb non-keto) without bigger problems (most people have some kind of difficulties I imagine. I had difficulties to stay on keto for 7 weeks and it was easy and enjoyable enough, just still with some difficulties. I lost nothing though, well that wouldn’t have been pleasant) and never gaining it back. Some people can do it, it’s not a given for the metabolism to slow down just because there is a little less food to trigger fat-loss.

(ALISON PICKERING) #44

Hi - DH and I started ZC on June 4. We have both lost ~30 pounds.

HOWEVER - it has been a journey of long plateaus for me, after the initial ~20 pounds in first 2 months. So - I went almost 10 weeks with ups and downs in the same 3-pound range, but my body was consistently shrinking! I can wear clothes I couldn’t wear when I weighed LESS - so check the clothes, keep track of your measurements (DH lost all over - but a fabulous 7" around his waist - he’s now into 32" jeans).

“Eat meat and wait” is my slogan for this diet. Your body composition will change to less fat, more muscle, and muscle weighs more (and burns more in your basal metabolism).

I’m thrilled, even though it has seemed glacial. I hope the same will be true for you. I look a whole lot better and have had to give away all my fat clothes, even as my weight hasn’t really changed. Woo hoo! All the best to you - stay patient and keep the camera, clothes, or measuring tape handy to track your progress.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #45

This statement by Michael is true as far as it goes. There is indeed a limit to how much energy our body can obtain from fat stores during a day. This simply means that we also need dietary fat to make up our need for energy. As long as we eat in a way that keeps our insulin low (i.e., a low-carb diet), the body manages this seamlessly, and all we need do is eat enough to satisfy our hunger. When we embark on a ketogenic diet and have extra stored fat to shed, we will eat less and use more stored fat. When we have shed most of the fat we need to, our hunger will pick up and more of our energy will come from our diet. When you think about it, this is exactly what we want to happen.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #46

I’d like to amplify a bit on what @PaulL just said here: after the weight loss - ie ‘maintenance’. Losing excess stored fat via a ketogenic diet does not slow one’s RMR. This is unlike virtually all non-ketogenic high carb low fat calorie restricted diets (ie HCLFCR diets). HCLFCR diets are designed to provide less nutrients than required for daily maintenance - ie to force stored fat burn. They work and do that successfully most of the time by forcing one’s metabolism to run on less than the required energy (ie calories). Remember that it’s excess energy in the blood caused by digestion of carbs that stimulates insulin to block release of fat energy from adipose cells and force storage of glucose as fat into adipose cells. If you’re eating less than the total amount of energy required to live your life, then insulin remains low enough to let fat energy out of adipose cells to make up the shortfall. So far OK (ignoring other nutritional issues related to carbs).

The problems arise when the desired fat loss and end weight are achieved. Fact #1: you can not eat to a calorie deficit forever. Eventually, after all the stored fat is consumed, your metabolism starts to consume protein and other essential tissue. Not good. Fact #2: Forcing fat burn via overall energy deficit from eating a calorie restricted diet caused your metabolism to respond by lowering its overall basic daily energy requirements. Thus, when the desired excess fat/weight is lost, and you start to eat sufficiently to avoid Fact #1, whatever that amount of additional ingested energy is, Fact #2 leads to gain of stored fat. The fact is that 99+% of folks who lose ‘weight’ with a HCLFCR diet regain all the fat/weight they lost during the ‘diet phase’ and more.

The big ‘secret’ here is burning stored fat and not lowering RMR in the process. Only ketogenic diets achieve this outcome. They do so by lowering carb consumption and the resultant insulin response, such that access to stored fat is maintained and RMR does not fall. Total overall energy requirements are met. Thus, transitioning from ‘fat/weight loss’ mode to maintenance is simple and easy.

I will add that in my specific case ‘maintenance’ means transitioning from utilizing energy from ingested food to stored energy is nearly imperceptible. Occasionally but not always, I experience about 10-15 minutes of very slight, and at many times barely perceptible, ‘hunger’, when my metabolism ‘switches over’ from ingested energy to stored energy. My current specs are: 14-15% body fat. If you looked at me you would think I am ‘pretty thin’. Yet that 14-15% provides all the ‘cushion’ I need. I hardly ever feel ‘hungry’.

#47

I guess mostly because they eat like before and that amount caused gain even for their bigger body. That clearly can’t work.
It’s problematic if the metabolism slowed down seriously but then slimming down should have problems already. If one loses fat at a decent pace so there is still a significant deficit even the end, that lucky one (I couldn’t slim down even on low-carb, I was too hungry to eat at a deficit so doing it all the way with carbs seems super lucky to me) should eat just a bit more to meat their metabolism and voila, maintenance.
But if the one isn’t that lucky or can’t eat just a bit more, that’s unfortunate and I imagine both happens often.

Of course not everyone eats HCLF who doesn’t eat keto. I lost fat on LCHF before keto (not as much as I wanted but a significant amount. keto couldn’t help me with fat-loss, I don’t eat automatically at a deficit, not even if I try to do my best but extreme low-carb and good timing has a chance, we will see), my SO on HCHF. But maybe it doesn’t matter, I just wanted to add it.