Not Losing but Sticking to the Rules HARD

(Chris Christine) #1

Hi! I’m not new to keto.I’m just new at it again after 1.5 years. The first time I lost 30 pounds. I didn’t feel so great while losing that 30 pounds tho…. Anyway I gained back the 30 and then some!
I started on again on November 1st 2021. I went in totally prepared with more supplements and vitamins on hand.
This time I feel GREAT! I feel healthy, in a great mood, energy is good… I feel like a million bucks! The extra vitamins and supplements made all the difference.
I completely skipped Thanksgiving dinner and only cheated for Christmas… Right back in strong on Monday.
I also decided to only weigh in once a month. I want this more as a life style than diet. From November 1st to December 1st I lost 10 pounds… December 1st to December 24th… I lost 4 pounds…. Then it stopped! No weight loss at all. I weighed in this morning (2weeks early) I lost 6 oz!
Why am I not losing anything? I am strict on carbs. The only dirty keto food I eat is Carb Balance Spinach wraps. The only! I eat under 1400 calories a day and follow my macros in the carb manager app… I eat veg is every day.
I am very sedentary. It’s winter in Maine… I work from home.
That said… I’m not losing inches, pounds or anything yet I feel great! I’m heavy and need to lose weight.
I started at 231 and am now since December 24th 217.
What am I doing wrong? I NEED to lose weight!

Anything will be helpful.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #2

My first suspects would be these:

  • I eat under 1400 calories a day
  • I eat veg is every day
  • follow my macros in the carb manager

Unless you’re a midget - and you’re not - 1400 calories per day from your plate is not enough. Your metabolism can only burn a certain amount of stored body fat each day to compensate for reduced energy from your plate. If you exceed that amount, then not only will you not use stored fat, but your metabolism will slow to reduce overall energy requirement making it even more difficult to do so. That’s not a good place to go.

This is somewhat controversial, although I don’t understand why. You don’t need to eat veggies. You can have a long and healthy life without a single vegetable ever crossing your lips again. But if you feel you must eat something, my recommendation is bok choy or baby bok choy. Both of which will give you more nutritional bang for the carb buck.

Set your Carb Manager macros to ‘Maintenance’ not ‘Weight loss’. You should not feel ‘persistent’ hunger while eating keto. Hungry before meals is OK, hungry all day is not.

Best wishes.

#3

Weight daily, and eat 1300 for a couple days, then 1200 for a couple days, 1000 if you have to. If you notice your weight trending down… than 1400 is above your maintenance. If that’s the case I wouldn’t keep eating that low since that’s a never ending trap but work on getting your RMR back up.

(Chris Christine) #4

Thank you for your reply. I figure the supplements and 3xtra vitamins will cover the vegi thing.
I should of added tho I’m not hungry either. If I am I’ll eat a snack of pork rinds and some sort of dip. I USUALLY don’t go past 1400 calories. I never exceed 1800.

You are saying even tho I’m sedentary I should be consuming more calories?

No weight loss in nearly a month……?

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #5

The first thing is to get into ketosis and stay in ketosis consistently. That means all the time. To do so eat sub-20 grams of carbs per day and the less the better. The second thing is that ketosis initiates a process of metabolic normalization. Excess stored fat is only one symptom of problems. There are likely many others in addition that aren’t so obvious. The process of normalization fixes what’s broke and sometimes fixing other things takes precedence over eliminating excess stored fat. Many folks report that their overall health improved first and the fat came off next over the course of several months or longer. It’s an individual thing and depends on what’s broke and how serious the damage that needs fixing.

My opinion is that in ketosis if you’re consuming less than the amount of total energy your metabolism requires to get through the day, then one of two things is going to happen. Assuming you’ve got stored fat, your metabolism will use it. If it can’t - and there are multiple reasons why so - then your metabolism will slow in order to match total available energy. This applies only to someone with a relatively ‘normal’ metabolism. If you have hormonal imbalance(s) or cells/organs that are misfunctioning then matters can become very complicated. If you are not in ketosis consistently - all the time - matters get even more complicated.

If you lead a relatively sedentary lifestyle, then your metabolism is probably already pretty slow. The fact you can eat 1400 cals per day and not lose weight or feel hungry is one indication. However, it’s not a simple straight forward thing. Anther thing to keep in mind is that some of us do not have reliable hunger and satiety signals. I do not. I have not felt hunger since day 2 of the 4 day fast when I started keto in January, 2017. My metabolism transitions seamlessly from plate to stored energy, even on days when I under eat by several hundred calories. So hunger may or may be a good thing to go by.

If you take the suggestion by @lfod14 to reduce calories temporarily to determine whether or not you start to lose again, I think that will confirm that your metabolism is very slow. @lfod14 also has some suggestions of how you might raise your RMR. Ultimately, getting your RMR and your total daily energy requirements up to a healthy level will be a very good thing to accomplish.

#6

Actually, there is no problem with zero veg and zero supplements, it works for many people… Not for all, sure.

I don’t see any problem, you lost weight fine before Christmas, then you went a bit off… Not much time passed since - though with your calorie intake and weight I would be a bit impatient too… Still, maybe your body does something else, you retain a tad more water… Doing everything right and losing fine but not losing anything for quite a few weeks, it happens to people.

I don’t see a too quick fat-loss in your past to think your calorie intake is too low (I suppose you ate this little in November as well) but you truly eat quite little so maybe it’s not good enough? I don’t know, really, I never was able to eat this little but I have less fat to get energy from too… (But there is individual factor, 1400 kcal is starvation for many but if you feel okay and never lost fat too quickly, maybe you are fine? Or your body too quickly slowed down your metabolism? No idea, really.)

Maybe higher-cal days would do good? When I still lost fat, I couldn’t avoid them and my metabolism never slowed beyond what is normal when losing weight, it seems. Maybe they gave the right message to my body? Not like it should be needed with a decent deficit I think but who knows?
Many people says certain items may interfere. And we change, what works in the beginning, may not work later…

I’m sorry I wasn’t more useful. But a few weeks isn’t considered stalling yet, it easily happens for some reason or another so don’t think you surely do something wrong.
It’s great you feel good :slight_smile:

What macros the app gave you? Maybe they aren’t so great… But it shouldn’t be the reason not to lose fat, I just wonder.

(Chris Christine) #7

I wonder as well. I completely forgot to mention I’m 60 with hypothyroidism. I’m not on high meds for the hypo… it hasn’t changed in years and I’ve always been able to lose the 10-15 I needed to lose in the past.
I am getting discouraged. Maybe it’s age….?
I was eating probably a hefty 2500 calories a day before I started back up.
It’s truly a mystery but a discouraging one at that.
I’m 5’10…. I’d like to get down to like 180-185.

(Chris Christine) #8

RMR? I really appreciate your answer. Good stuff right there. Im 60 year old as well with hypothyroidism. I’ve had hypo for many many years and my dose of meds never changed. Like I was just saying to another person here… I’ve never had a problem with weigh loss as far as my thyroid goes… maybe I do now? I really like your thing on the feeling good part first and the other stuff still needing to be worked out. I feel really good. Not so sluggish. That’s why I’ll keep this as a lifestyle.
Im in a constant state of ketosis. I check my blood often.
Im rarely hungry on the 1400 calories and if I am I have no problem with a no carb snack. It’s not often that I’m hungry.
Age?

(Alec) #9

Christine
Here’s my advice:

  1. Always eat when you are hungry
  2. Don’t eat if you are not hungry
  3. If that means 3 days with no eating, so be it, wait for the hunger
  4. Stop eating when you stop being hungry
  5. Focus on one thing you said: you want this to be a lifestyle. You decided only to weigh yourself once per month for a reason… weight is not the only thing going on here
  6. The weight loss could take some time, give it 12 months before you judge it
  7. If you are on meds, these could be driving insulin up. Have you had a fasting insulin test done?
  8. If you are truly in a hurry to lose weight, try some 36-42 hour fasts, or even alternate day fasting. But my advice is to stay patient, and wait it out (pun intended!).

Cheers
Alec

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #10

Bingo! This is Relevant.

My dad was afflicted with hyperthyroidism in his mid-late 20s and early 30s. Into the late 1940s he was a healthy young man. Within 5 years he was an emaciated husk. No matter what or how much he ate, he continued to lose weight. He was a highly trained and experienced Air Force pilot, so the Air Force tried to protect its investment by nuking his thyroid. Apparently, that was the ‘standard treatment’ of the day. It worked, too! From then until almost the end of his life, he gained weight steadily no matter what or how little of it he ate. I don’t know if he was prescribed meds, but if so they didn’t do much for him. His obesity resulted in diabetes and coronary heart disease. His first heart attack was at the age of 63 and he subsequently had to have quadruple bypass surgery plus a pace maker.

The good news for my dad was the last couple of years before he died he reduced carbs significantly - not keto, just much lower carbs - and for the first time in his life since the 1950s he actually lost weight!

I suspect that I inherited my dad’s over active thyroid - before it went hyper - and it helped me survive a lifetime of SAD without serious metabolic issues. And I’m very grateful for that. I suspect there may be a lot more folks like me out there. But I suspect there are likely a lot more folks out there with an under active thyroid (or hypo) like you who have a hell of a time keeping energy input lower than output no matter how much they ‘eat less and move more’ trying to.

:point_right: My suggestion at this point is to eat more meat. Eat meat every day whether you’re hungry or not. If you can’t ‘stuff it down’ eat less fat to make room for it. Change your macros to include more meat. Meat protein helps to stimulate both the thyroid and pituitary glands to boost your metabolism. Body builders know this and do it successfully. So can you!

I disagree with the advice not to eat if you’re not hungry. Don’t even consider the idea of multi day fasts. One of the worst things you can do to yourself when you’re hypo is restrict calories on a very low carb (keto) diet. Your T3 is already low and restricting calories will only drive it lower. See here and check out some of Amber’s references. This one, for example.

If after 6 months you’re not feeling more energetic or losing weight/fat again, then consider carnivore as an alternative to plain keto. There is a carnivore section on the forum and many folks who eat that way. But first, just eat more meat every day. That may suffice. Hope this helps.

PS: @amber If you’ve modified what you wrote in the linked article above, please advise. Thank you.

(Chris Christine) #11

Thank you so much. So much different advise. I am going to just hang in there. I do feel a whole lot better overall. I am going to take bits from all of this. I just need to figure out my formula for what works for me food wise. I don’t think I could just do meat only.

#12

Hi I am adding to your confusion… LOL… I am close to you in age and also have hypothyroidism that I am not medicating for. In opinion you are losing fine. The good news is that you are feeling fine and I think that there will be times when the scale does not move as much as you hope but it should move. There is a thread with women over 50 on here maybe peek in there and see what some people are doing. There was some really good advice in there that I used… I will go and see if I can find it and relay it to you

Editing to add the info
So the info I was thinking about was in the maintenance forum. But there is very good discussion in the 50s thread as well.
The maintenance thread just made me breath deeper and keep trusting my own direction

(Marianne) #13

I haven’t browsed everyone’s responses, but I bet to a person, the comments you are receiving are telling you that you aren’t eating enough. I’ll second that. It’s great that you aren’t weighing yourself all of the time!!! So liberating! Along with that, don’t count calories! Give it up - you don’t need to!

My best suggestion is to eat 2-3 meals a day and meet or exceed your fat and protein macros a day, while keeping the total carbs as low under 20 as you can. We all have to do what we are comfortable with, but why are you eating those spinach things? Can you just eliminate them in lieu of some other clean keto food that you enjoy? For me that would be bacon, or 3-4 oz. of cream cheese, a piece or two of keto pizza, cold chicken dipped in a little mayo (although mayo isn’t the best thing because of the oils used; I still don’t sweat the small amount I consume on occasion), etc. How about some sauted spinach with some cream cheese mixed in? Sounds good to me!

Do you notice your clothes fitting differently? The fact that you feel GREAT is very telling. Good things must be happening, otherwise, you wouldn’t feel that way. I would venture to guess that your body is in a deep healing state and that your weight is redistributing. The scale will move again. In the scheme of things, if you want this as a lifestyle more than a diet, then make some adjustments and let it happen. You have to be able to live with this comfortably. Keeping the carbs low is key.

It’s winter in Western NY as well. Apart from gardening in the summer and light housework, I don’t do jack and am pretty much completely sedentary. I detest most exercise and always have. Still, I’ve lost 75 lbs on keto and have kept it off for three years (started at 230). Exercise is not required, although kudos if you enjoy it. It just shouldn’t be employed as another way to purge calories, however, which is what most of us did when conventional dieting.

Good luck to you! Bring your questions and experiences here. You will get a lot of feedback and support.

(Marianne) #14

Me, too (63). Many of us here are over 60. You are in the cool kids club. :grin:

(Chris Christine) #15

Hi I tried looking for that 50+… I’m not great at moving around in this forum. I will look.
Thanks so much for your feedback!

(Allie) #16

There are some areas you can’t access as a new member so that could be why, but as you post more and become a regular member, permissions open up and you get more access.

(Chris Christine) #17

Hahahaha I feel exactly as you do about exercise. It’s just not me! Yuck! I was always a good weight… age is screwing me over big time. I cannot give up on my spinach things. It’s truly the only bad thing I eat. I brown it in butter and make a lovely egg salad or chicken salad sandwich. It’s my one staple that I get nervous about not having. You mentioned mayonnaise. I eat a lot of Mayo. Maybe I’ll switch to Mayo with olive oil. I’m not much of a cook and my menu is very basic. Chicken quarters, lots of pork, breakfast sausage, I’m not a huge chicken fan. Bacon…, probably too many nitrates but I don’t eat it all the time. Because keto keeps me satiated I don’t need to get fancy. I eat because I’m hungry. Not that my food is bland I just don’t do a lot of keto recipes. Lots of cream sauces, or just seasoned. What’s on my menu is boring…. I’ll do a Parmesan crusted deal thing… I stay away from sugar as much as possible. I keep it about 95% clean. I’m not creating any sweet snacks. My fats come from animal fat, butter and Mayo. Probably not good but I’m also on a very strict budget. Food prices are killing me.
Like I said. I do feel great. I’m gonna keep at it because I like it. I might be a little impatient. :woman_shrugging:t3:

(Marianne) #18

Girlll, you had me on so many points except when it came to this one. Unlike you, except for a few years here and there, I’ve been overweight and a slave to food for most of my pre-teen and adult life - until keto. Either way, fat is not fun, nor is it good for us. I totally get that you want to drop the pounds you’ve gained.

Also, I’d say if you love spinach that much, then by all means eat it. I’d just keep your total carbs under 20/day. All of us here have to find what WOE we can live with. The beauty of keto is that it is so adaptable to many different ways of eating.

Best to you!

(Chris Christine) #19

Ohhh my spinach wraps are only 3 carbs. Carb Balance. They are lovely! The highest average carbs I eat a day is less than 15…. Rarely do I ever hit 20. Like I said I’m doing this 100%. I juuuust gotta be patient. It’s a whole other game at 60. Well the game started changing around. 57. Lol

#20

I do not trust the carb count on things like this. It is a mixture of fancy math and weird definitions of what constitutes fiber. Maybe stick to the basics for a bit and see if that helps. You can go back to the wraps later on