Not consuming enough fat

(Primalwoodsman) #1

Hi,
I’ve been on keto for several years now. One area I’m still unclear about is…Lets say I stay under my protein and carb grams, yet simply because I am not hungry I don’t hit my targeted fat grams. How does this affect my ketosis and ketone levels? I typically only eat once a day and sometimes the above happens.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #2

If you are truly not hungry, you probably don’t need to eat. Dr. Phinney, who coined the term “nutritional ketosis,” describes a ketogenic diet as being low in carbohydrate, moderate in protein, and fat to satiety.

(Jane) #3

Fat is not a target you have to hit. I know it appears that way because of the macros, but it isn’t. Carbs are max, protein is a min and fat for energy (in place of the carbs you used to eat for energy).

If you aren’t trying to lose body fat and you have plenty of energy then your fat intake should be fine - no need to eat more.

(Bob M) #4

Those of us who started with Atkins have never looked at macros, particularly fat macros. I would not eat fat just to eat it to make some arbitrary macro, especially if you’re not hungry.

Personally, I’ve tried higher fat keto multiple times. I found I don’t get satiated with fat. So, I’m back to eating high protein again.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #5

There must be some resource out there people encounter that emphasises eating lots and lots of fat on a keto diet. We get a lot of newcomers who appear to feel that all that fat is what causes the magic, even though it’s not. That’s why I try to emphasise Dr. Phinney’s line, "fat to satiety."

I guess the problem is that our fear of fat is so deeply ingrained that overcoming it flips us to the opposite extreme, when what we really want is to be in the middle somewhere.

(Edith) #6

I also think that when we first start keto and our bodies are learning how to use fat for fuel, the “experts” tell us to eat more fat when we get hungry. Thus, we think we need more fat. The better advice would be to eat more meat, cheese, eggs, etc. We don’t need to supplement with fat bombs. I think that is when the extra confusion begins.

@ctviggen, I never found fat satiating either. Only when it comes with protein does it satisfy me.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #7

I think this is it. Mostly. There’s a lot of misinformation ‘out there’ about keto. Mainstream medical and nutritional people are part of the problem. Talk to pretty much any doctor or dietician and they will describe keto as a ‘high fat’ diet. The concept that simply removing carbs from your diet seems so impossible to most folks they can’t wrap their minds around the concept. We get it here, as well. A common question is some variation of “how many carbs can I eat” or “do I have to give up carbs completely?” I think what some are really asking is whether they can continue eating some of their fave carb foods and make up the difference eating more fat.

(Bob M) #8

@PaulL This is the book that had me eating more fat:

@VirginiaEdie I wonder if there’s something genetic about this, or maybe something we can’t analyze (maybe not enough data)?

Some say they get very hungry eating high protein. That could be true, I guess, if they have a poor glucagon response. That would cause hypoglycemia, which I guess could lead to hunger. But I’ve tested my response to protein, and I get a zero blood sugar change.

So, for me, I get a good satiety and no blood sugar response from protein.

I’m also exercising at least 2 hours/week body weight training, and another 30+ minutes HIIT. I therefore have some place for the insulin spike from protein “to go”.

And I wonder (the genetics part) if some of us are simply more responsive to fat? I saw a mouse study where genetics highly influenced weight gain on a “high fat” diet. Of course, this is mice, so it’s hard to translate to humans, and says nothing about what causes this. (And a “high fat” diet in mice is always suspect.)

Can I simply overeat fat relative to someone with different genetics?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #9

My guess would be that you need more protein than most people, and you’re hungry until you get it. My experience is that no amount of fat is satiating until I’ve eaten enough protein. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, the data chart of people’s nitrogen loss, in the study used to set the daily protein recommendation, showed many participants who were either far under or far over the average. It makes me wonder why they even bothered to make a recommendation other than “eat what you need.”

You’d think that figuring this out would be easy, since we are supposed to have an instinct for getting the right amount of protein—and “fat to satiety” (or Bikman’s phrase, “filling in with fat”) is a simple concept, as well. Unfortunately, in practise, people have a much harder time figuring out their needs than one would guess from the theory of it all.

#10

One gets into and stays in ketosis because of very low-carb… But we need to eat enough, whatever it means.
Some people starve on keto, they aren’t hungry so barely eat. It’s - not right. We need some amount of food and nutrients and lack of hunger isn’t a valid reason to starve ourselves.
Even if it’s just a little calorie unbalance, if it causes weight-loss while one can’t afford it, it’s bad. But if it just causes metabolism slowing, worse body functions, that’s bad too.

You need to eat enough but I can’t tell you what it means for you, obviously.

Others wrote their individual experiences with fat… In my case, added fat isn’t satiating and fatty dairy is the same. That’s why I avoid both kinds as I eat too much fat, did it all my life (except when I only ate ~130g and lost much fat, oh nice old times :)). But if I ever need to eat more, I know what to add! As my protein is already high and I don’t want to go even higher.

Sometimes I think someone gets too full too early because they eat too lean. I tend to eat a similar amount of meat, no matter its fattiness so eating a way fattier meat easily raises my energy intake - even though fat in meat satiates me. But I can eat more than needed for all day satiation. I just can’t get satiated with my normal amount of food using bad food choices. And it’s harder to overeat with good ones but possible.

I find eating without hunger very important if we have a very good reason for it. I did that a lot and I did it right. But I often feel my body needs fuel, I just don’t have the hunger sign as well… And let’s not talk about appetite. I usually eat with zero.

And we are all different and who knows what our thoughts about when we should eat? I know people who doesn’t think they should eat when they are very hungry and very underweight, okay, that’s serious eating disorder. But many people ignore even hunger and not everyone has proper hunger signs… It’s so complex. I usually get hungry but often only once a day while I don’t eat big enough meals for OMAD so I obviously need meals without hunger as well.

But ideally we feel if we need food. My own body usually tells me that but sometimes it’s a bit too late, sometimes (new style of keto) it gets confused, I learned that I shouldn’t let my energy intake drop too low, I have super little chance for it but it happened and not always ended well.
Some others didn’t get the warning even a bit later and damage their metabolism.