Normal Weight Newbies on Keto

newbies
(Powder Blue) #1

Hi Friends!

Happy to have found this forum.
Hope I can get some answers to some questions I have in mind.

A little background.

So, I am 28 y.o. Female with a weight of 68 kg, height 172 cm, and BMI of 26,4 which is considered average in all calculators I have checked. My previous nutrition was not bad, no processed food, a lot of fish, poultry, veggies, and fruits. Also, I am an oatmeal lover, so here’s that.
Now I decided to go to KETO for multiple health benefits and I also want to lose 10 kg. I want to make it a lifestyle change, not a few-month dietary plan.

It’s my third day in Keto, and I do not have any real terrible cravings or keto flu, hopefully, this is because my previous diet was OK. I was not into a fast food or nasty stuff before, so I’m definitely doing a clean diet now as well. Today I am having savoy cabbage, shrimps in full cream, grilled salmon, a few fat bombs with brazil nuts with cocoa powder, tahini, and coconut oil.
I feel a little greasy in my stomach if this makes sense at all, I am not used to very fatty fish (like salmon) or cream, and fats in general. Before I used to have mostly proteins, veggies, and fruits. Some grains, but not overboard. So far, I’m coping. I am also active, and I do 1,5-2 hours of weight training 3-4 times a week.

This is some background, now a few questions.

  1. If one starts with not being obese, in a pretty much “normal” weight and a normal previous diet, does it take longer to see weight loss? I wonder if members here did start with similar or lower weight, if so, how did that go?

  2. What can I do not avoid the greasy stomach feeling? It feels like I am drinking a liter of olive oil per day. And I do have lemon juice with water, first, it helped, but now it’s not really helping.

  3. I feel a little slow physically and down emotionally, do you have any tips?

THANK YOU!

(Martin) #2

Hi there, glad KETO is working out for you and that you are adjusting well! I’m definitely not an expert, but my two cents:

1: Yes, the less weight your body needs to lose, the more time and work it takes. Being on average weight, I would suggest you do anything to spike your growth hormone - intermittent fasting, good night’s sleep and exercise. This should not only help your further weight loss, but also to speed up your metabolism and make you feel better.

2: I felt exactly the same after starting eating avocados, even though I was already fat adapted. In my case, it just went away, but maybe you could try to put two tablespoons of good Apple Cider Vinegar into your lemon juice water. At any rate, I think this is something that will correct itself with time.

3: Lots of people experience that when they start with KETO. Make sure that you’re getting enough vitamins/minerals/electrolytes. Try adding some supplements into your diet, but make sure they come from natural and edible sources. Don’t be afraid of salt. Definitely some top wheatgrass powder juice, cod liver fish oil, nutritional yeast, D3/K2, perhaps even mineral water drops and I would also recommend to sneak raw quality cacao into somewhere (I put it into coffee).

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #3

Welcome to the forums!

First, the last ten pounds come off the slowest, even for people who lost the first hundred fairly rapidly. Enjoy the journey and be patient.

Second, don’t use so much oil. Use solid fats, such as butter/ghee, bacon grease, lard, and tallow. That will help with the queasy feeling.

Third, you are going to feel down for a while, but will soon come back up. You are going through some important shifts at the cellular level. In the meantime, don’t overdo the exercise, until your body recovers.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #4

Welcome! I’m quite a bit older and male so my experience may not be totally relevant, but here it is.

  1. By the genetic luck of the draw, I suppose, I never had any particular issues eating SAD for 70 years prior to keto. None-the-less, I would not describe SAD as ‘a normal diet’. From the human evolutionary perspective, eating hundreds of grams of carbs per day is not normal! Deriving most of your nutrients from plant sources is not normal! The decade of my 60s I put on maybe 30-35 pounds excess fat. I lost it all quickly and easily when I started keto at a rate of about 2 pounds per week. Many folks report that when they have a lot of weight/fat to lose it goes faster at first then slows such that the last 15-20 pounds takes much longer.

  2. Stop drinking olive oil! Eat fat don’t drink it!

  3. Yes common experience. Your body cells haven’t yet figured out that fat is fuel and don’t yet know exactly what to do with it. This will pass. As noted above, keep up your electrolytes since you will pee a lot more on keto. Without all that glucose in your body, you won’t hold onto water unnaturally any more.

Best wishes.

PS: I agree with Paul, back off on the exercise for a few weeks until you start to feel physically normal again.

(Powder Blue) #5

Hi Friends!

Thank you so much for your tips and advice.
@MartinS thank you, I will try the apple cider vinegar, I did read a lot about it’s usage but did not really get there yet, I shall speed up! I did start magnesium this morning, I think this should help. Thanks again for the input.

@PaulL I guess you are right! I do not use much oil though, I ha only one tbsp of olive oil with my salad. Other than that some coconut oil in the fat bombs. But i feel greasy after eating a salmon steak, and other fatty solid foods of animal origin. I guess I need to get used to it, it was a rare occasion in my diet really. Don’t feel quite as much if I have let’s say macadamia nuts or brazil nuts and such. So looks like animal fat gives me that greasy stomach feeling.

@amwassil yes I agree! After doing my research I feel that ‘normal’ is not as normal as I used to think, however, what I mean is normally relative to most diets I see around such as soda, candies cakes and fast food every day. Hence in comparison to these, mine felt normal. However now when diving deeper into keto, I get a different impression. Ah, that buckwheat and oatmeal…surely felt healthy before. lol. I did have a fatphobia, legit fatphobia. I did not eat animal fat for about 12 years, that this is why I get the greasy stomach feeling right now. I used to eat only lean white fish, super lean chicken fillet and turkey fillet. The only healthy fat I would get was from occasional almonds which are literally nothing, I didn’t even use olive oil. You know those people, who say “Dressing on the side please” in the restaurant. And never actually use the oil dressing. That was me! Can’t wait to turn everything around!

@amwassil I think I did not express myself well. I do not drink oil, that would be pretty disgusting. I meant that, in my stomach, I feel as if I had drunk a liter of olive oil. This is how it feels, but I certainly did not do it))) Thank you for the care!

I think you are right about exercise, also I have a very intense program and I just don’t feel like doing it at all.

Thank you again for your warm welcome and great tips, I am more excited and encouraged now. @amwassil @PaulL @MartinS

(Joey) #6

@PowderBlue The advice you’ve received above (from several of our forum’s top luminaries) is rock solid.

Rather than repeat their excellent counsel, I’ll simply WELCOME you to the forum! … and congratulate you for your well-informed approach as you set off on this “keto thing!”

Here’s to your good health :vulcan_salute:

(Powder Blue) #7

Thank you, Joey! Happy to be here! I wish I was educated about this lifestyle earlier. High five! :raised_hand_with_fingers_splayed:

(Joey) #8

As a late-bloomer (“normal weight” in my 60s), I also began keto from a fairly healthy, trim, active starting point. Yet the health improvements (energy level, strength, sharp mental focus and concentration, joint flexibility, disappearing inflammation, …) and other keto-related changes have been nothing short of remarkable.

I, too, wish I’d become educated about this WOE much earlier. :wink:

(Powder Blue) #9

I hate to say this phrase, but it’s true… BETTER LATE THAN NEVER! Ugh!
It’s only a third day I am keto, but here’s my discovery. I was literally bloated for all my life and had no idea I was. How crazy. I just had nothing to compare to. These three days, apparently I am not bloated, and it’s just… different.

I can’t wait for the mental focus and energy levels. When did you start noticing these changes? How long into keto?

(Joey) #10

Well, I hesitate to say this but for me it was a matter of weeks. Please know that everybody is different. Also, there tends to be a significant difference in the timing and arc of changes between how men and women (pre- vs. post-menstrual) experience various keto-related changes. Many women (including my wife) experience significant benefits but over a longer, more protracted timeframe.

Your Mileage WILL Vary … but as you well know (@ 28 yrs, you’re clearly wise beyond your years), if you’re doing what’s best for your body, it’ll serve you extremely well in the long run. And it’s the long run that most of us geezers wish we’d thought about when we were young and stupid.

#11

  1. It usually goes slower then, yeah, it’s logical but it’s individual. I have much more to lose and I never lose anything on keto. Some people do it stricter with super slow or no loss. While some people rapidly lose weight even when underweight. Keto food doesn’t have the same effect on people’s food intake, the style of keto may matter too (the better I choose my food, the less I eat but timing matters too). Some items may interfere…

  2. Eat less fat and more protein? When I changed my keto style, I had to eat less fat but I quickly got used to it (but I ate very high-fat all my life). Not everyone is fine with high protein, experiment! :slight_smile: I personally don’t want to go over 200g regularly, it’s already more than twice my need (and I love fat anyway) but I never felt any problem due to high protein. Oh and it matters if you use fat in your protein or added fat, I am way more sensitive to the latter, it’s very different from fatty protein sources (I see we are different, I wouldn’t even consider salmon fatty enough but these things may change a lot, in both direction, we don’t always desire the same fattiness in our food). But if your body has a problem with the actual fat amount, eat less of it if you can do that. Or maybe it’s the fat percentage in weight or something. When I cut out plants, the usual amount of fat (actually, less) became a bigger part of my food volume/weight wise and I couldn’t handle it so well. So it’s not always the actual grams.
    You came from very low-fat? I imagine you will need time to get used to fat. You do the hardcore route, I would have linger on a low-carb but not keto before. HCLF->LCHF, I don’t know how people do that, HCHF -> LCHF was a big enough jump to me and LCHF -> keto was an even bigger one for some reason. Some of us prefers doing it gradually and smoothly but if you can do it in one jump, that is quicker…

  3. Normal for a newbie, it will pass if it’s due to the changes your body inevitably undergoes. But if it’s an electrolyte problem, it’s easy to solve.

I doubt anyone would feel right after drinking a lot of olive oil (no, not a little, that is hardcore torture level)… I surely would and I love fat… Even my 9 hour egg fast was mild torture, never again but I had to try it out. Well that was super greasy and nauseating! It’s when you eat 10g fat for every eggs and nothing else (well cheese is optional but it was sickening enough). Plain awful. I could eat the same macros with smaller problems when not using added fat but it still wouldn’t be ideal. Fortunately we have options especially when trying to lose fat! If we want to bulk on a 5000 kcal diet, well, we better LOVE fat galore, added fat included…

Good luck! Try out things, we all are at least a bit different and need a different keto. And it may need some evolving too. I needed a different approach as a newbie ketoer for sure.

Yep, it happens. It wasn’t bloating in my case but I had the same experience. I felt very healthy and had no idea I could feel better until I tried low-carb. It’s such a pity many of us only knew high-carb as normal for decades…

Mental focus and energy level: they are individual. I never had really significant changes regarding those.

(Butter Withaspoon) #12

I only had a little bit to lose and it came off very quickly. I’m the exception to the rule! I was probably already somewhat fat adapted and with a minor elevation of insulin.

Many years ago I was tired sick and bloated and I’m sure if I’d tried keto back then it would have been a harder and slower journey. I’ve never been fat phobic. I made changes in the quality of my food, and gradually increased my exercise endurance over many years. I was already in a good place before keto. Trying keto was about giving up my oatmeal and fruit breakfast, and eating a lot more red meat; it made me feel even better.

I’m nearly the same height as you and am at a happy stable weight of 61 or 62. You may decide a bit more muscle is good. I’m unhealthy skinny at 58. It really depends on even the weight of your bones! Good luck and Welcome!

(Powder Blue) #13

Hi Hallie!
Uh yeah oatmeal and fruits is something! I also love oatmeal with a spoon of honey. But last few days I have embraced so many flavors, the flavors that I considered of “too caloric, too fat” and could never allow myself anything like that. I am thankful that I simply gave in, and trusted the process. First fatty meal was weird, I felt guilty. lol

BUT! it’s only day 4 and feel that I passed the first stage, today I’m full of energy, went to the gym and had a workout as if I had it with carbs, but the energy was much more stable and I did not crash right after the workout as it I sometimes do. My workouts are pretty intense. Also, I did not want to eat, after the workout I usually need to get something in ASAP, not this time, even though 9 hours since breakfast have passed. I will try for ketones tomorrow, I wonder if I’m there yet, I felt the energy boost on day three, not sure if that indicates anything though. In the mornings it’s hard for me to get up, even if I have a looooong sleeping session, but not the last two days, I get up in a second. It’s either my body doing wonders or it’s all in my head lol. Another big plus, there were zero cravings since day 1, I am genuinely surprised, I would have expected to crave at least an apple or something!

You are so right about the “number”. I envision myself being about 58, but If I like what I see at 60 or 63 or heck even 65, I will stop. But since I do intensive weight training I expect to build muscle, so 58 really might be too low for what I consider a muscular, fit body. I will see, I wonder where I would like the number to stop. The other day I got to know that my friend’s weight is 70 kg, she looks about 60 at most. Bodies are so different, you just won’t know!

Happy to be here and thankful for your response, I hope to make new lifestyle friends here! :heart:
I’m from Europe, and keto is not that popular at all here.

(Powder Blue) #14

Hi Shinita, thanks for tuning in.

Egg fast sounds…terrifying :smiley: Was that for the weight loss or training your body for stress? What was the goal? I read a little about fat fasts, there are supposedly to get you into ketosis faster.

As for proteins, you are so right. Different for everyone. I once tried a high protein, low everything else diet. The worst experiment I have ever done. It was very strict, and I literally had only protein. It was either my kidneys or my liver started hurting at day 3 and I stopped immediately. When I started intense trainings I also topped up my protein, and It just wasn’t cool. I was bloated a lot, and simply felt heavy, the breath also, yaiks. not for me.

As for the fatness, I will tweak things as you suggest! But today is day 4 and I feel much better and comfortable eating fat, the “greasy” feeling goes away. I am pretty sure in few weeks time I can have a whole salmon steak without any problem. For today my macros were proteins 82 out of 109 recommended, fat 123 our of 122 recommended, so I one grams more, and net carbs 16. Even though carb manager advices me to take about 50 grams. I feel I will go as low as I can, and when I am fully adapted I can tweak carbs to 30-40 grams. Depends if my body is still in ketosis then.

How many grams do you take at the moment? What are your macros? Have you found you sweet spot?

As for the transition, yeah, i don’t even know why I went hardcore and simply cut it right through. But I think it’s my personality showing itself. Whenever I start something I just jump right in, probably not the smartest move, but it worked for me so far in health and work (especially)! i don’t think too long, lol. Not sure that’s a big plus.

And thanks! Will do my best!

(Powder Blue) #15

Ah, I wish I did not have my fair share of “stupid” but unfortunately I did, just like 99,9% of us :slight_smile: if we wouldn’t be stupid sometimes, we wouldn’t appreciate our personal growth either. So I call it decent progress! For me, it’s day 4 and I am full of energy, completed an intense workout, had a great mood all day. Feeling great so far, if this get’s better as it does for your wife, I am more than willing to stick to it for as long as forever. No cravings as well since day 1, literally zero. If cravings were there, I sure wouldn’t be so enthusiastic :smiley: Thank you again for a warm welcome!

(David Cooke) #16

I started at the same point, ca. 10Kg overweight (but 45 years older!) and it took me three months until I got the feeling that my body was Ok with it.
Well worth it, many “it’s normal as you get older” things disappeared and I threw away my cholesterol meds (unopened) and blood pressure meds.

(Butter Withaspoon) #17

Hey Powder blue, you’re doing great!

  • no cravings
  • not hungry after a workout
  • enjoying workouts
  • jumping out of bed in the morning
    All of that shows good metabolic adaptation already. You can measure ketones if you wish to but I’m not sure it’s necessary. I never have at home. Keep up the great work!
#18

I am merely very curious and try to do things… Once I even tried low-fat for a whole day! It was awful, not surprisingly. Egg fast always seemed so impossible I never dared to try it until lately so I did. It was interesting, my calories dropped without me being hungry but my body is a hedonist too so anything but eating in such an insane way. Egg fast is bad as it has very little eggs to my liking. Oh well, I tried, never again, I suppose. Added fat isn’t good for me. I don’t do anything for fat-loss just enjoying myself, I was very sure egg fast only could cause losing a pound (definitely not more, the numbers wouldn’t allow that) if I ate little and I have more enjoyable ways to do that if I really want that (still not good for a hedonist but being a bit fat isn’t among my biggest problems, I definitely not sacrifice anything for losing).
But egg fast has its fans too…

Fat fast is different and way more enjoyable, I did that after some keto months (at that time, egg fast was impossible as I couldn’t do carnivore then, not even for a day. but I must say meatless carnivore is borderline impossible for now even now, no matter how much I love eggs. I ate nuts and vegetables during my short fat fast as it allowed them in small amounts). It did nothing, just satiated my curiosity. Getting into ketosis is super easy, one needs no tricks at all.

I can’t imagine mostly protein, I would starve and miss fat and eat a lot… But it’s all about the actual macros, needs and the individual, I suppose…

50g carbs are too much for ketosis for most of us and even if we can handle more than the average person, going lower may be better. If not right away, eventually. But some people raises carbs after fat adaptation and it may be better for them so it’s individual.
Wow, you eat way fattier than me! And I thought my food is fatty :smiley: Roasted pork chuck alone is my normal food, well that’s WAY less fatty than yours! Unless you need this to avoid undereating (I guess protein satiates some people too much), you can eat leaner without problems.
And 1 grams? You follows some calculator with their very random numbers? I don’t. My fat intake is between 54 and 270g on keto and there is nothing wrong with it as long as it suits me. It’s usually a smaller range, like 80-160g, though. We aren’t robots, we have different needs on different days, now we fancy something leaner, then some fattier stuff… Some people get tabula rasa every day, I don’t, my body balances out things, heavy days are followed by lower-calorie ones and vice versa… I still tend to eat too much but not because I don’t stick to numbers. I didn’t do that when I actually lost fat easily. Some of us needs more flexibility. Now I can’t even tell if I eat 100 or 130g fat, I eat much fatty meat and I can’t possibly now this information. And it’s fine.

Hopefully you like chatting as you asked about ME. It won’t be short.
My macros? Let’s see… On a great day when I pull off a nice, satiating lower-calorie day for me… Then it’s around 100-120g fat and protein, usually the fat is a tad more but I have my leaner favs too so higher protein is possible. It’s good for fat-loss for me, I just need to stick to it.
If I do a heavy day, I can do 180-200g for both… But only real need or bad food choices trigger such days, it’s exceptional.
I have no targets and limits (I would epically fail anyway). I try to keep my protein below 200g and it’s not so hard… I try to keep my fat below 200g since a decade, I regularly fail but it doesn’t happen very often and it’s fine. I don’t need to worry about carbs much, I know what contain carbs and I prefer carnivore food anyway. Tiny extras can’t endanger my keto. And I can handle off keto days here and there if I can’t or don’t want to avoid it. I stick to keto until fat adaptation, though, I was very serious back then.

Oh lack of carvings, I had that when went low with my carbs too. Before I could do keto longer term, I made “keto days” (probably never reached ketosis but ate very low-carb) when I couldn’t handle my chocolate mania. And it immediately stopped the cravings. And carnivore stopped my desire towards sweets and peanuts, right away. I was very much addicted and suddenly nothing. But we are lucky, many people have cravings problems (if I give my body and mind enough time, things aren’t that perfect either but real cravings, I don’t think I have those. hard to tell as if I fancy something, I eat it but I don’t even fancy carby things when I have my beloved carni food).

You even have more energy, lucky you! :smiley: