Non-dairy keto?

#1

Curious about community thoughts experiences with dairy?

I’ve been doing keto about 4 years and love it.

Recently had to come to grips with my lactose intolerance. Since then I’ve come across a lot of negative information about dairy. I’ve basically cut it all out- no milk, hwc, cheese etc. Last to go was ghee. :smirk:

I’m trying to stay keto- and by my keto strips seem to be succeeding- by using a lot of olive oil with my meals.

Please comment if you have some good information or experience either way.

Anyone hear of casimorphines?
Anyone switch from A1 to A2 milk?
Any thoughts about all these new nut milks?

Cheers!!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #2

There are two problems with dairy that people experience: (1) lactose intolerance (the human default is to stop producing lactase at some point after weaning, though northern Europeans and the Maasai have mutations that allow lactase production to continue in adulthood); and (2) a sensitivity to one or more of the milk proteins.

Lactose can be avoided by sticking to butter, heavy cream, and aged cheeses, but the protein problem, if you have it, pretty much makes dairy off-limits to you.

You mean, flavoured waters? :grin:

(Robin) #3

I gave up cheese (except cream cheese which is different somehow) because it made me lethargic. But I drink heavy whipping cream in my multiple coffees every day.

(Tim Cee) #4

I haven’t had trouble with milk, but if I did, I would probably use lard as my non-milk fat. Never thought of it before, but there’s probably some untapped culinary potential.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #5

Even if you had trouble with milk, you could still use butter, since it’s entirely fat and water, no sugars or proteins. At least, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Food Composition Database.

#6

Butter has a little sugar so if someone is really sensitive, they should use ghee or rather some other fat. Not like one necessarily needs added fat, I try to avoid it along with almost all dairy as they just boost my already high calories and it’s not like one needs dairy, usually…

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #7

You are absolutely right. There is 0.58 g of lactose in 100 g of butter. So beware!

(Edith) #8

Butter still has milk solids. They are removed when ghee is made.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #9

I’m one of those fortunate northern Europeans and zero issues with dairy. I eat lots of cheese, cream cheese, whipping cream, double or ‘clotted’ cream, creme fraiche and ghee. I also eat whey and casein protein powders. When I consume dairy that contains lactose I use only items with 1 gr per 30 grams - 3.3 per 100 - ie 36% whipping cream and Walmart’s Great Value cream cheese, which has half the carbs of Philly. Grana Padano and Parmesan Reggiano are hard cheeses with zero carbs. Some old cheddars also have zero carbs. A soft cheese with zero carbs is Boursin Bouquet of Basil. Both double cream and creme fraiche have zero carbs.

@ctviggen has experience with A2 milk and might have some advice for you.

#10

I gave up cheese and typically will have some butter and/or ghee. I seemed to do well with these in small amounts. I added in goat cheese and did okay with it, A2 protein. Didn’t cause digestive issues or bloating. I use some unsweetened almond milk and what they add isn’t great from an ingredients standpoint, but if I have 4-8 ounces I can taste almonds pretty distinctly. I could see someone adding it to coffee in lieu of hwc.

(Edith) #11

I avoid dairy because it makes my joints hurt and makes me itchy. Before I went mostly carnivore I used coconut cream and macadamia milk for milk substitutes along with coconut oil, olive oil, and various animal fats for cooking. It’s certainly possible to do dairy free keto.

Butter with its milk solids causes me trouble. Ghee had me running to the bathroom.

#12

I used nut milks (well more like fruit milk, coconut :smiley: but I tried others and added nuts to my coconut milk sometimes) in the past, I always made them myself as I disliked the store-bought ones and they are super expensive anyway, clearly not worth it, it’s super easy and quick to make our own.
They had their uses but I doubt they replace anything, it’s mostly just flavored, fatty water. I didn’t consumed it for the nutrients, I had my staples for it. I ate about 150g oily seeds every day, the super tiny stuff in my plant milks (we can use milk here as it’s widely used for white plant things as well, I mean since ages in botany… surely English does that just like my language)… Well, I did vegetarian keto, now I have meat for nutrients besides my ever present eggs, much better. Without meat I would include everything very low-carb I can handle well and don’t have problems with it. Meat just simplifies things as we can get everything we need from it, maybe not on every woe though as our woe has some effect on our nutrient needs.
If I eat cheese, that’s usually lactose free but it’s partially my taste. I do try to avoid getting tons of lactose from my food and it’s easy enough. I had lactose free years even on vegetarian low-carb and it was easy. I only added back some dairy items for variety but they start to disappear again, not needed, not useful most of the time.

#13

A1/A2 is a Casein, only makes a difference if your problem is Casein.

No such thing. Nut flavored water isn’t milk. Don’t sign on to that insanity. Drink it if you like it, just don’t call it milk… because it’s not.

I was diagnosed lactose intolerant twice by two different docs. I’m not. I switched to raw milk and have had zero issues. Same goes for cheese. Raw cheddar is easy to find, blue cheese etc.

Ultimately you can always take lactaid with your dairy, not a huge deal.

I could post about a bazillion things that show you dairy is the best thing you can ingest. If you go looking for something… you’ll find it!

(Edith) #14

As usual, your body is the ultimate decider on whether or not dairy is good for you. If you take it out of your diet and notice improvements in some chronic ailments, allergies, aches and pains, skin problems, digestive issues then dairy is not good for YOU. I used to get cankersores all the time. I thought that’s just the way it was. My parents got cankersores, afterall. When I gave up gluten, I stopped getting cankersores.

I think there are some aches and pains, allergies, or whatever that we get and we just think “that’s the way it is.” And it turns out, that’s not necessarily how it has to be. I know that diet doesn’t fix everything, but it sure fixes a lot!

#15

Well said!

I find it difficult- but not impossible- to identify trigger foods.
I think i can notice some worsening arthritic type pains- with certain foods but i have been very conscientious about my diet- eliminating a lot of things and adding some back here and there. Like you i went gluten free- think it is helping. The dairy. And even felt like nuts were a problem. So I’m down to mostly veggies some fruit and then meat and fish.

When i say conscientious- my wife would say obsessive- lol! Do you think any significant number of people can really do this effectively? There seem to be so many variables to these chronic symptoms we have- it seems to be a LOT of work.

I’ll add that i did a food sensitivity test- through a medical doctor- to help me sort out what may be some triggers. I do feel that I’m making progress- have been and still a little sceptical about the test though. Have you any insight about food sensitivity testing?

Thanks for the reply!

#16

I am not keto but for dairy I ‘do kinda ok’ in that being zero carb…I could easily identify what cheese I did well on. Hard aged is fine for me.

Soft like mozz cheese or sour cream type SOFT I do not do well on and I start to crave more and I also find I have bathroom issues way more but on hard aged I do ok…but even with hard aged I whittled down to my best of the best I do fine on and don’t wonder at all about issues…no cravings from eating, not bathroom issues at all but now I am very limited thru elimination and yrs on plan to what few hard aged work well for me and darn I am happy I AM ONE who can keep a bit of cheese in my menu cause a darn good bacon cheeseburger is just that, darn good! I love my tiny bit of cheese I can keep.

But again, being zc this is a very tight elimination plan so we know very quickly who or what foods are culprits against us, on Keto it could truly be other food issues but that is very personal to how a Keto Plan person does eat so? just my personal journey on cheese/dairy for me.

Dairy really is NOT a real food. It is ALL man made if ya think about it so when one wonders and feels ‘hmmm’ then eliminating dairy all in is a good N-1 experiment for that person to try and see how well ya do off and what effects ya get having it back. Our bodies tell us darn fast sometimes :wink:

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #17

According to the USDA Food Composition Database, the only carbohydrate butter contains is a very small amount of lactose (0.5%). The rest is fat (about 82%), water (about 15%), and small amounts of certain minerals, vitamins, and amino acids.

(Edith) #18

Well… what are all those milk solids that get strained out when one makes ghee?

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #19

One source, from a quick Internet check, calls the milk solids milk proteins, so I would guess that would be the amino acids referred to by Food Data Central. Clarifying butter apparently removes both the proteins and the water from butter, leaving only the fats.

I suppose the minerals and vitamins could also make up part of what gets removed in clarifying, not to mention the lactose, but I really don’t know.

(Tim Cee) #20

My sister’s doctor said something smart. “If it makes you sick, don’t eat it.” We’ve been fed a load about food from people who make their livings selling it. A good option for the discerning is to amend their culinary experience based on functional nutritional results. I’m not looking for a substitute birthday cake. It’s birthday steak for me. Maybe it’s better to change what we associate with good taste/texture from what we were sold to what was made for us by the Creator in nature.