No loss

Shazzah · 2024-04-18 23:58:56 UTC

Just Juju. thank you for taking the time to explain so much. You have given me hope and a lot to think about. I really appreciate your help, thanks again.

Shazzah · 2024-04-19 14:13:05 UTC

I think in just a couple of days, I’m making some progress. Yes it’s true I’m not hungry. I’ve stopped snacking, increased my fat intake, (strangely difficult to do after a lifetime of dieting), lowered my protein and continued to eat few carbs. Thank you for your advise.

Shazzah · 2024-04-19 14:17:09 UTC

I am following your sage advise and in a couple of days I’m feeling better so are my scales. I’ll continue to get on with it. I found it difficult to get my head around the whole idea after a lifetime of traditional dieting. I understand that I have much more to learn but I’m trying.Thanks again

ffskier · 2024-04-19 14:52:49 UTC

Are you measuring your blood ketones? If not why not? It is true some people do gain weight on keto no matter what they do. I believe it comes down to hormones. Men and women are different.
Have a look at the work of Dr. Sara Gottfried.

Saphire · 2024-04-19 17:41:17 UTC

Good advice all around.

As others have said, I would consider eliminating any processed foods, nuts, fruit, alcohol, yogurt especially with artificial sugar, humus. I do not see a lot of fat being consumed. I personally do not think that is bad unless you are hungry. I think fat consumption is more important for those close to their goal weight however that is speculation and I am not an expert. Another theory is to vary the amount of food eaten so that some days you overeat a little so your body can relax. I had that recently, I have been on a plateau, slight gain since January when I went on vacation (but really did not overeat much). I have been doing time restricted eating since last July and had lost about 24lbs. I try to only eat between 11-6 (I stay up late so my 6 is like 4 or 5 for someone else). I do have dinner if it is a social occasion and we went out last weekend. I then stayed up late working on a project on Sunday and then exercised a lot on Tuesday and Wednesday (longer than normal tennis, not anything extreme). As of today I finally back to where I was in January (yay). It may be that I am more careful about what I am eating or the opposite is possible and my body relaxed because of the extra food. While most non starchy vegetables are good, I would watch the onions, which I know sounds crazy but onions have more carbs than you think. I would still have some but consider it as a fruit rather than as a vegetable. I would also put everything you eat into an app. I like Cronometer but I am sure there are others. Sometimes you are eating more carbs than you know. I would also measure urine ketones, they still should be showing after a month.

I did not eat yogurt when I first started Keto. I did eat full fat sour cream which had the same feeling for me. I do eat Two Good now but as a once every couple of weeks treat, not as an every day thing. Tip, I add a tiny pinch of salt and for some reason it tastes better. Again this assumes you are not on a salt restricted diet.

Good advice about skipping the snack.

As for the mayo, I am not familiar with the brand but I limit mayo with soybean oil and most commercial mayo. I have it occasionally because although I used to make my own (yum and easy) I found I could not use it up fast enough and in my case it is at most a couple of times a month if that. I mention it because it sounds like this is something eaten daily

I have two friends, mother and daughter, who are currently doing a no sugar no white carb diet which they have turned into Keto or tried to. They claim not to be eating any real carbs other than nuts and berries. Not sure what they are doing wrong as they have not shared their full diet with me, but neither has lost any weight. One is normalish weight (could lose 10lbs), the other needs to lose 30 lbs after having a baby almost two years ago. I’m actually not surprised they have not lost (maybe a little) because they are constantly sending me labels from packaged foods asking if they are ok. You can imagine my response.

Just_Juju · 2024-04-19 18:20:59 UTC

Oh man that just made me groan and cover my eyes. Lol The packaged/processed foods are so bad second only to sugars that are unnecessarily added. When people are constantly grabbing packaged foods to use on a whole foods healthy diet it says to me they still don’t understand what they need to and are still compromising their health for convenience.

Maybe you can have a frank discussion with them to help them understand that packaged foods will never, ever lead to the health they desire, and why. Let them know they have a choice to make: blindly give to others who don’t know them or care about them (food manufacturers) full power and rule over their bodies and full say-so in what they will put into their mouths, or refuse to give anyone that power ever again. It’s one or the other. If they really want to become healthier and stronger, and by default less overweight, then they have to take back control and stop living in the life of convenience we had all been pulled into the past 50 years. It just wasn’t worth the true cost of it.

And once I got going and learned enough about Keto and the ways I now cook, it’s now just as easy and convenient as opening a silly box of something and far better tasting.

Shazzah · 2024-04-19 18:27:15 UTC

Thanks everybody, It has helped me no end. I appreciate all your help and it has been invaluable. I was so frustrated and holding on to the idea that 1, protein is good fat is not. I was eating a little more fat but not enough. It’s very early days but I’m suddenly dropping a couple of pounds. Thanks again.

Never regret anything that made you smile!

Saphire · 2024-04-19 19:14:35 UTC

The thing with these two is that they are both very health conscious. Neither ever sits still. Even in rainstorms they are out walking around. The younger one feeds her kids bulgar, whole grain everything, fish, and whole organic yogurt. Her kids do not eat chicken nuggets or pizza except at a party. The older one is always knowledgeable on the latest newest trends in general and the latest food crazes, restaurants, and products. I think they were both trying to short circuit the process. This is not a WOL for them although for the younger heavier one it could have been if she had lost weight. Both are going on vacation soon and were only doing it for 21 days (we are on Day 18). I’m annoyed because now I will have to hear endlessly how they cut out sugar and lost nothing

Shazzah · 2024-04-19 20:45:37 UTC

Thank you for this information. I’ll read up.

Shazzah · 2024-04-19 20:50:53 UTC

Lol, yes I see that. I’m finally seeing where I was going wrong. After years of conventional dieting I found it hard to eat more fat and less protein. I eat no carbs other than what comes naturally in berries etc,… I have bought Keto tortillas no carbs but I’v stashed them in the freezer until I have more of a handle on things. Thank you for taking the time to help.

Shinita · 2024-04-19 20:59:58 UTC

I never could or want to do it for sure. I mean, the less protein part. Why do you want to eat less protein? What you wrote about your food doesn’t seem particularly protein rich, I don’t understand…

Fat is essential, it’s no secret. It can’t be bad, it makes no sense. And well, it seems way better to me than eating sugar… But fat is good energy, what could be wrong with that…? Overeating is wrong, eating much fat isn’t. If carbs don’t work well with us, we need our energy from somewhere… (Not like I could eat less than very high fat on high-carb but that’s another thing, not everyone is like that but everyone is starving with very low carb and very low fat.)

Shazzah · 2024-04-19 22:06:57 UTC

Hi, I’m still eating protein fish, beef, lamb and chicken but I wasn’t eating much fat at all, so I’ve upped the fat part and slightly lowered the protein. I’m still eating plenty. I’m not eating carbs other than what comes in foods naturally with the very occasional piece of tortilla, about a third of a low carb one. Thanks for your input I appreciate all the help.

Just_Juju · 2024-04-19 22:51:09 UTC

It’s is sad when people try to do something without understanding it fully first, and then later claim they did it and it didn’t work. Well … they never actually did it properly so what didn’t work was something else entirely. Not Keto. Keto works.

This is not a 21-day diet either. When people do keto for a vacation or event they want to lose weight for in a short amount of time they will never see what it truly can do and they will come to the wrong conclusions. They are better off doing something else, or just using serious extended fasting on and off for those 21 days, because all their weight will come back afterwards anyway. Diets don’t last. Changing your way of eating does. I don’t know why people think Keto is a quick weight loss option. It is not a quick weight loss gimmick. It’s not the fad people want to make it out to be. When you see it working beautifully for family or friends, or for people like us on this forum, its because we put a lot of time and effort into learning everything about it and understanding the science behind it, then we made all the necessary changes to our kitchens, freezers, pantries, and even our frame of mind about food to support it fully. It didn’t work overnight for those you see successful with it, or definitely not in 21 days. It requires a real commitment - but the payoff is huge, beyond any diet I have ever done.

You can’t apply “some” of the aspects of Keto but not all and get the same success, and that is not Keto’s fault. If you want to restore your health and have mind-blowing long term payoffs with energy, health, and weight so that you don’t have to ever yo-yo diet again, then that’s what Keto is perfect for.

Lol sorry for the rant. I have people in my own life doing the same things and it’s frustrating. I have a little soapbox I keep pulling out. Lol

Shazzah · 2024-04-19 23:41:15 UTC

Hi Just Juju, No I understand and I’m trying to learn as much as I can. Soapboxes are very useful at times, like swearing, they help us resist picking up a tyre iron and bumping someone over the head.

Never regret anything that made you smile!

Saphire · 2024-04-20 01:11:59 UTC

All good. We had a chat about fruit. The younger one was originally horrified when I said she should cut out fruit and she said if she has to worry about her onion intake then she is probably better off staying fat!

I explained that an onion has 10 carbs, watermelon has over 10 for 2 cups to which she said she eats way more than that. I had been telling her to track because otherwise you have no idea. I also said that sometimes you can do Keto to 80% but it is not enough because the 20% is stopping you from really getting into Ketosis. If she is eating two cups of watermelon, plus a cup of blueberries, that is 30 carbs right there plus whatever other incidental carbs she is eating

kib1 · 2024-04-20 01:57:50 UTC

I think a lot of people try to combine keto and whatever else they believe is healthy eating. Keto with plenty of fruit. Keto with whole grains. Keto without fat. Unfortunately, these combos are usually mutually exclusive. Perhaps fruit, or whole grains, or an absence of fat, can constitute a healthy WOE, but that’s just not keto eating.

PaulL · 2024-04-20 02:12:54 UTC

Welcome to the forums!

I’m guessing from the name Sharon that you are a woman. Ignore what happens during the first month. First of all, your hormones need time to re-regulate themselves. Secondly, if you are still skimping on calories–instead of following the advice to eat to satiety–then your body may be trying to build up its reserves in the face of adversity. Third, if you are eating a low-carb, high-fat, ketogenic diet to satiety, you might very well be adding muscle and bone density, even while shedding excess fat (this is fairly common, in fact).

Given in any case that you are not yet fat-adapted, I’d suggest giving things at least another month or two.
If you are deliberately cutting calories, stop. Eat enough to satisfy your hunger; give your body what it needs and let it sort things out.

A lot of women on these forums have reported that their fat loss didn’t begin until after the first month or two, and a lot of women (and some men) have also reported that they didn’t start shedding fat until they began to eat more, not less.

Lastly, it is possible that you are highly insulin-resistant, in which case you might have to reduce your carbohydrate intake below even the 20 g/day limit that we recommend here.

If you’d like some help looking over your menu for potential trouble spots, we’d be happy to help. Such information as your age, height, current weight, weight goal, known health conditions, etc., would also be helpful, if you feel comfortable sharing that sort of stuff about yourself.

Geezy56 · 2024-04-20 02:49:55 UTC

Here’s a good start for you.

Shinita · 2024-04-20 11:27:53 UTC

If they eat little enough carbs to go into and stay in ketosis, that’s keto, no matter what. Keto may be starving, it may be unhealthy, it’s all about the carb intake vs one’s personal limit on that day.

I never can interpret “keto works”. For whom, for what? It definitely doesn’t work for fat-loss or raised energy or basically anything except fat adaptation for me. I mean, keto in general.
It may be even unhealthy for some people, no matter what as they need more carbs for some reason (not necessarily the carbs but the nutrients they can’t get without it because they are allergic to many normal nutritious keto items and dislike or can’t afford many others. Or they starve on keto and couldn’t help it. Keto clearly isn’t for everyone).

Rare but possible. Of course, one shouldn’t just stop putting any effort into their diet (I mean, what they eat. all animals have a diet) after they quickly lost the fat (and possibly some muscles too)… I suppose that is what people mess up but to be fair, it’s quite hard for many to eat at maintenance even if they can do quick fat-loss diets that’s even harder but isn’t for long term.
But for almost everyone, yes, changing our diet/woe is the key. It’s pretty much needed for health nowadays anyway. And this is the logical way, not forced fat-loss diets for 2 weeks every year or something (but some people keep their figure that way).

I mostly learned about my body but yes, some of the science too. I understand. I know what to do. But I can’t eat little and probably never will (there are my off times too, I can’t avoid those either but I try to do my best). So I stay fat. (I WILL change that eventually but I need decades for some fat-loss. And it never could happen with mere keto.)

But isn’t it natural that not everyone can get any success with just any kind of keto? Even if keto works for us, we may need years to figure out what exactly works in our individual case (and doing it. this latter is tricky for me but I truly needed years for the first part too). Some people just go keto and bam, success, others need a longer journey and lots of training and effort.

I replied to this before reading about the watermelon. It’s about my relationship with fruits and the need for them at some point. I actually did keto when I went keto and I only could spar 1-2, sometimes 3 grams of carbs for fruit. But that was totally enough. I chose my carbs well.

I can relate. My chosen default woe is carnivore-ish but giving up fruit? That won’t happen, probably ever. It has nothing to do with my weight. (I mean, I havfe carnivore weeks, I don’t need fruit all the time… But that’s it. I cling to my fruit. I even needed fruit each and every day on keto (mostly banana and raspberry) for some reasonj in the first years. No problem with that if you ask me. Or with onions. Cauliflowers, yep, I had to cut that out. And I obviously didn’t use onion galore. But it’s very flavorful and very needed in many dishes, a little goes a long way. I don’t understand why people have problems with high-carb items, no matter what. Keto merely limits our carb intake, it allows high-carb items just fine. The kind that we eat in bigger amounts are out, obviously but onion? I can use 20g onion… I can eat 10g frozen banana (and feel it a decent portion with chocolate)… I can’t eat veggie dishes as they are super carby, I couldn’t afford them even when I had 40g net carbs on keto. Fortunately I don’t like vegs anymore (with tiny exceptions but they don’t even matter).

I would have quit keto without fruits and onions. I even needed onion for my early carnivore-ish times as it is a mandatory ingredient in our stews just like paprika. Tiny amount, doesn’t matter a thing but I like to do thing clean and clear if comfortably possible.

One can change a lot, I surprised myself - but 1. I needed carnivore for the big changes, keto did nothing like that 2. it doesn’t help when we still cling to our carbier items. If they barely bring any carbs and no problems, why would we make the burden bigger? Yep, I would rather stay fat than giving up things I don’t need to but which give me lots of joy! We all have priorities and they are pretty different.

Watermelon is sugar water, that’s out, obviously unless one is some strange type and can eat a tiny bit of it. But it doesn’t worth it, at least I just find it fun, not good. Banana is zillion times better if you ask me Or mango. But banana wins the carb content per satisfying portion game if I don’t have raspberries. (And most of them died out 2 years ago I will buy new ones this fall. I prefer my own fruit but alas, I can’t grow tropical ones and I adore some of those.)

It’s quite unlikely she eats keto then. And anyway, eating a lot of sugar at once? When it’s watermelon? Doesn’t sound a great idea to me, even if she loves watermelon, she may think it over and try to live without it. Watermelon has a shortish season anyway, people prove that it’s easy to live without it even if they like it…

That sounds like… “veganism with pork” or “carnivore with bananas”…
And reminds me to the joke “I can’t live on a single diet so I eat the food of 3 diets at once” or something. Do people really think like that? They can’t even describe their obviously non-keto diet like that as “keto” doesn’t really tell us the eaten items as it allows everything (though seriously discourages using some items for the normal person).

Much fruit is much sugar, much fructose, it’s unhealthy for everyone beyond some point as far as I know. And no fat is deadly. Whole grains must be quite individual.

Oh yes I forget mentioning that nowadays. Fat adaptation often brings big changes. My hunger changed there and then, quite drastically. I know many people have that on keto right away but some of us haven’t. So it may solve the potential problem so no need to worry about it just yet!

Anyway, a newbie should get used to keto and worry about the rest later. We need time for changes, physical, mental…

Just_Juju · 2024-04-20 12:50:10 UTC

Onions and Keto … I never understood why people warn about eating onions. Onions are Keto. I eat onions almost every day and I still lost weight and stay into ketosis. I don’t see them as a nonketo item just like I don’t see berries as nonketo. If you are strict NC carnivore then yeah, for your diet onions are not carnivore, but that does not mean they are not Keto. Sure an onion has about 10 carbs in it but when was the last time you sat down and ate an entire onion in one go? LOL I mean I could eat one like an apple if it were a vidalia onion but of course I never do. My gut would say ouch. An average serving is usually equivalent to just one slice, sometimes two, even when the whole thing is chopped up and added to a recipe, because most recipes have about 4-6 servings. The carb amount for a serving is minimal. It goes towards my daily allotment of carbs. Yes carbs all add up throughout the day between all the servings of different carbs, but ultimately Keto is low carbs from whole foods and an onion or raspberries or blackberries are whole food. Now of course other fruits are whole food too but they really are very high in carbs for the average servings because they aren’t just one small slice, and the bang for the buck is just not worth it because we hit our carb limit too quickly. I never saw onions as something that ate up my carb count too fast. They do have some other health benefits too just like garlic.

What I see on this forum is that sometimes the mindset of carnivore causes confusion for those trying to learn about Keto because we can easily forget that on one hand they are both “Keto” but on the other hand they really are two very different diets. The rules and beliefs about what is safe or appropriate to be eaten on carnivore are quite different than a traditional standard Keto diet. And of course can also be different based on each body’s needs.

I don’t think a blanket mindset about onions not being Keto is useful except for those rarer cases where someone truly has done the diet properly and given it a chance with enough time on it and can’t find why it’s not working for them. Then it’s most probably an insulin sensitivity issue and then they have to start removing each regular carb that they eat to find what interferes. But that shouldn’t lead us to start calling out foods as nonketo for all.