No! Grass fed is NOT a keto rule

(Vicki Stroud) #64

Grain helps the animal gain fat, you will find more fat on an animal that has been raised on grain than one that is “grass” raised. When raising an animal the grain is the most expensive component, so, why is a grass fed animal more expensive? I have been raising my own grain fed meat almost my entire life, turkey, chickens, beef, pork, goat, sheep.

(Vicki Stroud) #65

My cost to raise a beef critter per pound from the time we purchase it when it is weaned, to butcher including cutting to order and shrink wrapped, between 18 and 22 months depends on how the animal is looking is an average of $2.60 per pound all cuts including prime rib, being fed grain, which is why when I ask people I know who raise beef as “grass fed” how they justify charging $8, $12, $18 and even more per pound. Marketing gimmick big time.

(Kevin) #66

My wife and I went went to a whole foods the other day looking to see if they carried any Low Carb breads for my dad who is trying to get on board with keto but is having a hard time giving up bread. While we were there I went and look at their steaks since they offer all grass fed, and dry aged. I ended up buying a nice thick grass fed Ribeye to see if I could tell a difference. I’ve been a steak lover since I was little so I’ve had probably ever cut from many different places over the years. Well last night I cooked that steak with just a little Pink Himalayan salt and some pepper on a charcoal grill (which is how I do most every steak) and I’ll say it was the one of the best damn steaks I’ve ever cooked!
Now I can’t say that’s because it was “grass fed” or if I just got lucky but it was definitely a better steak than I’ve gotten from any other store.

(Ken) #67

Dry Aging beef is an expensive process. It does make the meat taste better, helping the taste of grass fed beef. It can take 18-24 days, and up to one third of the weight is lost.

Dry Aged, corn fed, fatty steaks are spectacular. There used to be a company in my area that that produced them, but the costs ended up being too high so the plant discontinued them. Typically beef is wet packed in plastic, then shipped by the case to the store. Then, the large cuts (loins, shoulder, round, ribeyes, etc.) are cut into steaks and roasts by the butchers before being sold. Big stores often get their meat already cut into sellable portions to avoid having meat cutters on staff.

I suspect that a significant amount of grass fed beef comes from dairy cows that have been “retired”. A great way to get premium prices for animals who would normally be sold at a discount, and considered only suitable for hamburger.

(Kevin) #68

Well the steak I had wasn’t a dry aged one, it was just from Grass Fed beef. The dry aged was 19.99 a pound and I just couldn’t bring myself to pay that… LOL

I’ve had dry aged steaks though and they are amazing!

(Arlene) #69

We raise our own grass-fed, grass-finished beef. Also pork, and sometimes a flock of meat chickens. The biggest difference with these meats is flavor. Delicious flavors with no off tastes, and the pork is juicy, never dry. Years ago I almost became a vegetarian because the flavor of beef and pork was becoming more and more offensive. We have been eating our own farm-raised meats for several years now, but when we eat out or when we eat at a friend’s house, I am always reminded how big a flavor difference there is. Why don’t we feed our cows grain? Because it’s not their natural diet. I also don’t see any need to spend unnecessary $$$ on bags of grain, when I can get fantastic meat without it. Why do they charge more for grass-fed meats? Because people are willing to pay the price. Supply and demand.

(Engkoun Quan) #70

Sorry my English not too good, so should I avoid meat if I can not afford grass fed product?

(Marie Dantoni) #71

No , not necessary !

#72

A couple of items.

First, I’ve gotten local grass fed and thought it was tough. Then again, I suspect that it was very “fresh”, hence some aging might have done the trick.

Second, We typically get NY strip steaks from Costco, looking for even marbling. Then the pack goes in the fridge unopened. I’ll leave it sit for two to three weeks aging right in the pack. This really helps. (I need to try my own trick with another round of local grass fed.)

Third, I’ve been following Dr. Peter Ballerstedt and his discussions about ruminants (aka beef, goats…) He posted this slide on Twitter awhile back. Have a look, the key point for this thread is on the far left where you can see from an Omega-3 / 6 perspective that the difference between grass fed and grain fed beef is really minimal. Usually when I see discussions about grass fed beef an underlying point is the Omega 3 / 6 ratio. Look at the far right of that slide and you’ll notice that the real issue is soybean oil, which is the main component in most mayo and salad dressings. If you’re concerned about Omega 6 start with soy first.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJNS8s4UEAAz93L.jpg:large

Dr. Ballerstedt has been making the rounds, listen to him on the 2Dudes but also poke around other podcasts, he has a very interesting story to tell.

(Vicki Stroud) #73

Grass Fed vs Grain Fed Beef for the layman

Per USDA ruling “Grass Fed” Beef can be fed Silage which is the entire cornstalk, ear of corn included chopped up and fermented. So, the “grass fed” beef many people are buying are actually in a sense being fed a “grain” of sorts because they are being fed corn, which fattens an animal and adds fat, and fat is what makes meat tender.

#74

While it is true that grassfed or wild-caught is not a keto rule - I think there are win-wins and food culture changes that can naturally develop further down the keto road. Such as when adults find that cruising through the day just on a fatty coffee and practicing Intermittent Fasting/One Meal A Day is reducing their grocery bill very significantly!!!

There is actually a real economic opportunity to try new meats & veg and to support humane farms and farmers markets - due to eating much less food! My household now enjoys wild salmon and shrimp several times a month, along with grassfed lamb and chicken - and going to the farmer’s market and supporting some local farmers that way too! Before my current IF 4-5 days a week, I couldn’t justify the cost of a number of things we eat now, but now I feel I can as the food bills crashed, and it’s a lovely surprise. But I didn’t think so until IF had kicked in so well - and I started to be able to just eat one meal a day and just a fat-fatty coffee at the start of the day.

Personally I think keto which leads to IF 4-5 days a week is an economic boon, it REALLY cuts down on grocery bills and makes it possible to explore more traditional/wholesome/ethical food sources. Even in big families with kids - when the adults are eating half as much food during the week, it can allow for dinners to have meats and oils that before would’ve seemed economically impossible. It’s quite wonderful that folks who’ve never felt able to afford grassfed meats or wild salmon or line-caught tuna can be able to choose to do so - and be able to enjoy the fatty acids our ancestors enjoyed, while also strengthening a farm-to-table feeling at the farmer’s market and family dinner table.

Being that it can take up to a year or more for some highly metabolically deranged folks to be fully fat adapted and able to enjoy fat fasting, I also think it’s important to honor people’s processes as they get to the point of satiety reliability and keto way of life before any discussion of changing food sources for molecular composition factors, possible fatty acids benefits, and/or to support actual small family farms and farming ethical standards for humane treatment of animals and for slaughtering/harvesting/catching is going to be relevant or interesting.

When the time is right though, and the food bill has shrunken, I think a natural interest in deeper diving into food-as-medicine and/or food sources or just another level of “foodieness” often can and does happen - because the palate changes, the brain changes, and our whole relationship to food is changed.

I really liked how the recent LCHF/keto film “The Big Fat Fix” (by the same guy who did Cereal Killers and Run on Fat) along with his friend the famous cardiologist Dr. Aseem Malhotra addresses food culture. They travel to Italy to explore some of the actual mediterranean food culture behind the food traditions of that region - and how its totally different cultural values inform how one shares a meal, how one combines tastes/colors at a meal, and all the relationships connected to that meal. There is something to the fact of possibly developing a more meaningful relationship with how our food comes to us from the land and sea.

Though I prefer the other two films he made over The Big Fat Fix, TBFF is a great film to watch with friends & fam who are foodies, or who’ve experienced enough amazing keto change to be interested in exploring the sources of our food and fat. Can be a helpful introduction to U.S. and U.K. folks who’ve never experienced any food cultures outside of industrial fast food and large grocers. But not relevant or interesting until one is fat-adapted enough and is able to manage any serious stressors well enough to have an interest in the topics - otherwise, it can sabotage/oppress someone if they feel caught out, or financially stressed or emotionally overwhelmed while dealing with recovering from carb addictions, etc.

One thing at a time - KCKO!

(Ken) #75

Bumping this since the grass fed nonsense keeps popping up on other threads.

IMO, one of the major reasons it’s pushed is, is as a sop to the so called Health & Natural Food Industry. An industry that pushes concepts that are neither healthy in the biochemical context, nor natural in the evolutionary context as well.

“Lean, grass fed beef and healthy whole grains”. Nonsense.

(Doug) #76

Ken, one thing about grass-fed beef - my wife and I both swear it tastes better. I never worry about it at restaurants but on a trip to Argentina in 2008 we really noticed how good beef tasted. Now I understand that more and more Argentinian beef is coming from feedlot cows fed grains… :frowning_face:

(A ham loving ham! - VA6KD) #77

Agreed the bife de lomo in Argentina is to die for! If you ever see on the menu “vacío” it’s well worth trying as it’s a lovely fatty flank cut where the fat is crispied up over the grill…yum! :crazy_face:

(Marie Dantoni) #78

Slowburnmary this is exactly the way I see it…less consumption = more $ in our pockets = more humane treatment of animals, less global warming and better tasting more nutritious food for humans. This has to go mainstream eventually or we’ll all be eating soy based frankenfoods soon.

(Brian) #79

Even though “grass fed” is not a requirement of keto, I still believe that what an animal eats, especially closer to the end of it’s life, affects the nutritional value and the nutritional properties of what they can give us in food.

Our mothers often said to us, “you are what you eat.” And while a person can take that too far, I think there is some validity to the concept.

I can’t grow or produce all of what I eat. But I really do care about what’s in it, how it’s raised, what it’s fed, that kind of thing, and really do try to do the best I can. Sometimes, it does cost more. And I’m sure I don’t always know everything I think I’d like to. But I do the best I can.

#80

Well here I am at 6 months on 6 bucks a day…Hit my goal of 185 lbs at the 5.5 month mark I was initially wrong about my start weight - I lost 65 lbs total!. Back in my HS 34 inch waist Levi’s. I tried these on ( a leg (lol) a year ago and just laughed. Never thought it was possible at age 62.

I finally bought a scale…for maintenance…it’s still a waste of money! This is still the one thing ! highly recco if your just starting out - Never mind the scale! Really, it’s not telling the truth. Get those old pants out or buy your goal pants… I have gained muscle weight along with dropping a giant gut.

I did do 16:8 for 3 months without missing a day. It works.

One more thing. My goal was reached close to XMas… I decided to go a little crazy with “regular” meals (turkey, tatas, rolls, pie etc). 2 days worth. Honestly - those foods did not taste as good as I remember at all! Back on Keto for me (after 3 days of disaster bowels). Keep it simple and you will succeed. 6 bucks a day was easy.

(Ken) #81

That’s funny. Argentine beef has been finished in feedlots since the late 1990s. They even passed legislation to promote it. I myself have had actual, grass finished Argentine beef when I lived in Europe in the late 1980s. No, I was not impressed. I could hardly wait to get back to the States for some real beef. In reality, the Commissary had excellent, US beef. (I really miss their New Zealand lamb!) The different was so clear that I seldom ate beef when eating out, since there were so many tasty alternatives.

(Doug) #82

Ken, I guess I need to keep eating both types, just to be sure. :slightly_smiling_face:

We were told the beef was grass-fed, at some Buenos Aires restaurants, and we stayed at an ‘estancia,’ a fancy-butt dude ranch type place where they served meat from cows raised right there - most definitely grass fed, and it was great.

(Pedro) #83

Hey guys, happy to be part of the forum. In regards the budget we have an option in Puerto Rico, I invite you to check the site www.caborojosteaks.com , we are farmers with a 100% grassfed practices, no hormones, no antibiotics, delivering to US (fedex), and our prices are very affordable (Costco levels).