Nitrites in meat products cause cancer

(David Cooke) #7

Bacon was traditionally made with salt. That’s it. And that’s the way I do it, very easy. Take a piece of pork, put it in a wooden box with lots of salt.
The addition of nitrites increases the shelf life of bacon and isn’t necessary for smaller quantities.

(Bunny) #8

Organic nitrates found in veggies and the kind purposely put in meat are bit different being the organic is much worse for you (more complex) :crazy_face: than the man-made stuff and from what I understand the meat industry scientist charged with developing the recommendations about adding the nitrites/nitrates to the meat recommend the least amount (properly balanced) of nitrites/nitrates be placed in the processed meat as a preservative. And as I pointed out on a previous post if your glutathione intake or endogenous production is adequate it protects you any way from the possible hyped-up carcinogenic properties of in-organic nitrites/nitrates…

Quit dissing the bacon! Lol! :bacon::cut_of_meat::poultry_leg::meat_on_bone:

A comparison of organic and inorganic nitrates/nitrites: The pharmacodynamic differences are even greater; while organic nitrates have potent acute effects causing vasodilation, inorganic nitrite’s effects are more subtle and dependent on certain conditions. However, in chronic use, organic nitrates are considerably limited by the development of tolerance and endothelial dysfunction, whereas inorganic nitrate/nitrite may compensate for diminished endothelial function, and tolerance has not been reported. Also, while inorganic nitrate/nitrite has important cytoprotective effects against ischaemia-reperfusion injury, continuous use of organic nitrates may increase injury. While there are concerns that inorganic nitrate/nitrite may induce carcinogenesis, direct evidence of this in humans is lacking. While organic nitrates may continue to dominate the therapeutic arena, this may well change with the increasing recognition of their limitations, and ongoing discovery of beneficial effects and specific advantages of inorganic nitrate/nitrite. …”…More

(Bob M) #9

I cannot believe you actually believe this garbage. The vast majority of this “evidence” is based on epidemiology, which CANNOT be used to provide causation. Moreover, there are as many or more nitrates is those oh-so-healthy vegetables:

(Banting & Yudkin & Atkins & Eadeses & Cordain & Taubes & Volek & Naiman & Bikman ) #10

Uhm, no one is doing a 17th century, pre-saltpeter long cure of pork belly anymore. And one wonders if we’d recognize it as bacon, given our familiarity with other long salt cures, like prosciutto and speck.

I like a shelf stable bacon. If I make my own, I make five pounds, minimum to make it worth my time investment. If I buy from the store, I expect three months shelf life in my fridge.

(Bob M) #11

This is the type of complete garbage they’re basing their evidence on:

https://neurosciencenews.com/meat-mania-9594/

“Experiments in rats by the same researchers showed mania-like hyperactivity after just a few weeks on diets with added nitrates.”

Humans aren’t rats.

“Yolken, trained as an infectious disease expert, was originally interested in whether exposure to infections such as viruses transmitted through food might be linked to any psychiatric conditions. Between 2007 and 2017, as part of an ongoing study, he and colleagues collected demographic, health and dietary data on 1,101 individuals aged 18 through 65 with and without psychiatric disorders. Approximately 55 percent of the participants were female and 55 percent were Caucasian, with 36 percent identifying as African-American.”

This is worthless data. It’s likely collected by food frequency questionnaires, which produce garbage in. Again, it’s epidemiological evidence, which CANNOT prove causation. It likely is measuring things like income disparity, people who eat against the recommendations versus those who eat with them, healthy user effect, so many confounders as to be freaking useless.

Until there’s an RCT with one group with no “processed meat”, and one without, it’s worthless.

(Bunny) #12

Nitrites/nitrates: a vascular-dialator?

Also, I remember story that was featured on a local news broadcast in some state where a gentlemen was shown flying kites with his dogs following him in the background who’s veins and arteries were so clogged with arterial plaque and calcium build up (he was beyond help or medical intervention; prognosis was terminal) that he went on a bacon (high fat meat) and egg only diet (carnivore like diet?) and guess what? He completely reversed it (clean as a whistle); I could not track down that news report because it was an extremely long-time ago…

He also wrote a book about it? (why he was featured on that local news broadcast)

My memory fails me on this because of how long ago it was!

(Bob M) #13

Sorry, epi evidence CAN be used to prove causation, but requires Bradford-Hill criteria to be met or very high correlation, such as 6 or 7 times (600 to 700 percent the risk. That was not met here.

(Ken) #14

Interesting, as well as tedious how this Vegan Claptrap keeps getting recycled.

You might as well say nitrated meat is especially bad when you have several undigested pounds of it permanently in your Colon.

(Scott) #15

This just in, Broccoli causes cancer because of high amounts of nitrates.

#16

if you actually read what I posted I’m not dissing bacon. lol

#17

hey, thanks for the over explaining.

Thanks for suggesting I can buy nitrate free bacon - like I couldn’t possibly figure that out myself.

I posted the article, which I didn’t write, to show that there are different messages getting out there about meat consumption with are not prime vegan or industry based.

#18

yep, that’s what we do to. Also found some good butchers that offer the just pork and salt option. We also make our own jerky with maybe some herbage and a bit of chilli. delish.

If I eat anything with preservative 250 or 251 (NaNO2 or NO3) I immediately get a rash and feel ill. It took ages to find out it was the NOx’s. Glad the addition of these preservatives is getting a looking into and getting published in a usually pro-vegan paper.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #19

Admin here.

A quick request to all participating on this topic. Please keep all responses, rebuttals, arguments, etc., focused on the topic and the science, and not the person. Personal attacks and name-calling will not be tolerated.

(G. Andrew Duthie) #21

Seriously.

No more personal attacks, even if they’re not directed at a particular member. If it continues, I will close the thread, and suspend the person posting personal attacks. Be polite, or don’t post.

(Carl Keller) #22

I think I cut myself short actually. I was going to link more studies and articles but didn’t for redundancy’s sake. :stuck_out_tongue:

A lot of people, for a long time, have been scared into doing what industry, self-serving interest groups and medicine wants us to do (for them). I believe the responsible thing to do is to look at the science (which the article does not link) and to see who is saying what and for what reason. No longer should we believe something just because a “reputable” organization like WHO, AMA, AHA or anyone says it’s true. The lies of reputable organizations is a big part of why disease and poor health is in the sad state that it currently is.

#23

yeah, no need to post more articles I’m on that page already.

I like that there is discussion of this in papers usually devoid of anything advocating meat eating.

Science needs to be dynamic and constantly scrutinized and questioned. The scientific method is awesome however it is wielded by us hominids and therefore often turned to cheese.

(Running from stupidity) #24

Good business decision, though.

:smiley:

Works for me…

(David Cooke) #25

I learnt how to do this in Portugal a few years ago. I may no longer be the youngest but that wasn’t in the 17th century. My bacon doesn’t look like shop bought bacon (not pink) and doesn’t taste like it (Tastes better - I choose the cut).

(David Cooke) #26

There was a big drama in Switzerland about 30 years ago when it was discovered that many vegetables cultivated in “Cabbage Country” (near where I lived) contained high levels of Nitrites and thus liable to cause cancer. The fact that people living in this region, who ate above average amounts of these vegetables, lived longer, went less often to the dentist, and were generally healthier, had no influence on the discussion. Maximum Nitrite levels were regulated and enforced, the newspapers let us know everything was OK, next scandal please.
A few years ago I noticed that that regulation had been very quietly removed and was no longer applied.

(Tina Emmons) #27

I recently found two brands in stores with only salt and spices. No celery-anything! I was pretty excited. Taste great, color different. The nitrates give the pink color. Garrett Valley sugar-free(tho they do have celery powder/salt in some of their other products) and Wellshire sugar-free. I’m not so crazy about avoiding nitrates/nitrites, just really like the simplicity of the ingredients.