I’m about a month into the diet. Went thru about a week of diarrhea and feeling awful (assuming was “keto-flu”) and now feeling better, but still low on energy. Definitely have not gone over 50 grams carbs in a day since I started and think most days probably less than 20g. Have lost 5 pounds. Using ketone strips , most days reads between “trace” and “small” and a few days have been between “small” and “moderate”. Thinking perhaps I’m eating too much protein relative to fat intake? Wondering how to get an adequate % of fat into the diet. Maybe I’m missing something, but almost all cuts of meat seem to have more grams of protein than fat, as well as chicken and fish? I’ve been cooking with olive oil, butter, and avocado oil, as well as eating an avocado with almost every meal. Also adding bacon to any meal that it seems to fit into. Still seems to me that the resulting mix has more grams of protein (and thus of course, a higher percentage of protein) than carbs. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.
Newbie question, how to get enough fat?
I have the opposite problems. Chicken is fatty (I only like thigh, with skin. fortunately it loses a lot of fat so I don’t eat that right away), the pork I like is very fatty, eggs are as much fat as protein in grams, yolks are fattier, there is all the yummy fatty dairy and added fat… Getting way too much fat is basically unavoidable (but I have tips to get more protein than fat now, you just don’t need it and even I couldn’t use it until very recently)!
See above. Added fat: eat some butter, it’s so great! Use fatty meat. I LOVE cream, sour cream, mascarpone (do my best to minimize them and cheese too. some cheeses are fattier than others)! But if you aren’t used to much fat, you may need to be careful. When I tried out carnivore so a way bigger part of my food (in volume!) became fat, I had to drop my fat percentage and it never was super high. That wouldn’t end well.
How much protein do you eat? You may need very different food choices for 2 times as much fat in grams and 0.8 times as much fat as protein (the latter is about right for me)! And it depends on your protein and energy need. I need little food (especially for losing but I get satiated at a cute deficit if I use the right items) but high protein so I need lean food. Compared to my tastes, at least. Someone with a smaller protein need or way higher energy need may lose fat just fine eating my nearly completely banned fatty favs!
Fish, yes, that’s lean, even the fattier fish isn’t very fatty. Chicken can be lean or nicely but not overly fatty (some has much visible fat but even I don’t see that all the time and it gets rendered out)… Beef can be leaner or fattier but pork is the one where you get basically full range fattiness. From super lean to 100% fat tissue and everything in-between. At least here.
My fattiest pork at the moment is pork belly. I have pork shoulder too, that’s quite fatty too… I personally eat sausages as well, they tend to be very fatty but it depends on the kind.
But I can assure you, just because someone bases their diet on very lean meat, getting a lot of fat may be easy. But it depends on the person and how their body works. Fat satiates one person and not another. And if we can’t stomach more fat, I don’t think we should force it, at all.
But there are so many wonderful very fatty items many of us easily eat without getting too full…
I would experiment with different things. Oh and I focus on animal stuff but there are nuts… Many of us can eat a bunch of them and we don’t even get more satiated. Some are carbier than others but if you don’t eat them excessively, maybe they can help…?
I see you do use fatty items as well, probably not enough to balance out your meat. And your meat can be way too lean for your tiny fatty extras. You either should eat more extra fat (as I do when I eat a pound of lean pork and some fattier stuff) or use some fattier meat to begin with. Or if not meat, many eggs. My rich scrambled eggs have eggs, some leaner pork, some fatty sausages, some smoked fatty pork… I eat it with cheese and sour cream on top. It’s fatty. I choose how much but it’s never anywhere lean 
So, it’s not necessarily a problem to eat lean meat (but you need to eat the fat too) - and it’s not necessarily a problem if you eat much less fat than protein in grams, it depends.
Can you give me macros? They may me more helpful. Maybe you should just eat more food, I can’t possibly know that… The percentages aren’t really important (except in therapeutic keto or if someone realizes they do need some specific percentages for some reason). Our need is in grams. You need enough energy, protein, fat, nutrients, preferably in a way that isn’t forceful and you feel right… Sometimes we need a change, some days can be totally different from others…
I don’t get it as you may talk about FAT, not carbs but more grams of protein doesn’t mean a higher percentage of protein (if one eats more protein in percentage as fat, that is quite weird and probably wrong. unless it’s some super low-cal day, not a normal one), the percentage thing is true for carbs but of course you need your carb percentage low…
But don’t worry about percentages. It’s fine to have less than 60% fat on keto if that works for you. It’s my goal and sometimes I reach it. Yesterday was a superb day eating wise, 53% fat. It doesn’t mean some people wouldn’t need way more than 80% fat on a normal day. It’s way easier to figure out/guess your own protein need and maybe energy need… Percentages aren’t very informative and one can easily go astray blindly following some popular keto macro percentages.
That’s not a thing, you (should) be making sure you get plenty of protein in,
Of course they do, meat is mostly protein.
How much fat are you getting in on average daily? You don’t have to force fat, as long as you’re getting enough for your body to run right, that’s all you need.
Hey, welcome!
I’d start by asking you, what are your goals here. What is it that you hope to achieve that you aren’t seeing?
There are always course corrections you can make, we’ll be glad to give you suggestions, but it all depends on where you’re trying to go. 
Hi Brian, welcome to the forums. I don’t worry about eating a certain fat percentage, I just make sure I eat fatty cuts of meat.
Some people focus on getting “high” ketones readings, some don’t. Ketone urine sticks however, aren’t a particularly reliable way to measure ketones, nor are “high” ketones levels needed in order to lose weight. Even blood ketone meters, tho better, aren’t completely accurate. I think most of them have a 15-20% error margin? Also ketones levels naturally rise and fall throughout the day, and it’s not always related to foods eaten, exercise and time of the day.
I second @kib1’s question: what are your goals. If you have a fair bit of fat to lose I’d focus more on
(1) keeping your carbs low enough - some people need to keep them to 20 grams total (not net), or lower, especially initially
(2) making sure you eat enough protein for your height, age and activity level
(3) making sure you eat enough food (and this is where the fat comes in) so you don’t want or need to snack between meals
(4) avoiding ultra-processed foods such as seed oils and many of the foods in supermarkets labeled “keto”, and eating single or short ingredient list foods instead
(5) giving your body the time it needs to heal, which includes what it needs to do to be able to use ketones effectively and efficiently for energy
(6) keeping in mind we are all individuals and our journeys don’t follow the same path or tragectory. People who have amazing, fast success, can be inspirational but they can also make us feel we’re “not doing it right” when we’re doing great.
All this is easier to do if you are wanting to make eating this way a lifestyle. Welcome again. Ask as many questions as you want and let us know how you’re getting on.
The standard advice, developed by Dr. Stephen Phinney and others, is to eat very little carbohydrate (the founders of these forums recommend less than 20 g/day), a reasonable amount of protein (say 1.0-2.0 g/kg of lean body mass/day), and fat to satiety. On a ketogenic diet, the fat we eat is the replacement source of energy for the carbohydrate we are no longer eating.
The healthiest fats, it turns out, if we look at the actual research, are animal fats, the fat that comes with the meat, poultry, and fish we eat. These fats are also much more satisfying than vegetable fats. So cook with butter, lard, tallow, and bacon grease; avoid the industrial seed oils (for too many reasons to go into here). You can add butter and cheese sauce to your vegetables. You can even butter your steak, if you need to, to satisfy your hunger.
You are likely to find yourself satisfied with far less fat than you might think, because it is so much more energy-dense than glucose/carbohydrate. The point is to eat enough to satisfy hunger, not simply for the sake of eating fat. Fat is not magic; it’s just a healthy alternative to glucose/carbohydrates.
By the way, you are going to have less energy for a while, until your skeletal muscles re-adapt to metabolising fatty acids. This process of fat- or keto-adaptation usually takes somewhere between six and eight weeks. You will get your energy back if you stick with keto–that’s a promise! Unfortunately, the adaptation phase can’t be shortened, we simply have to wait it out.
Welcome! I personally never monitored ketones. I just stuck to the program. If you’re already doing what you can… you’re good. Trust the process and be patient.
I also didn’t weigh myself because they can play mind games if you fluctuate (which we all do). If you simply must track, take your measurements. But your clothes will be the most reliable indicator of weight loss.
Brian
Welcome to the team. I can tell you are going to do well because you are asking the right questions.
Bottom line, you don’t have to worry about fat/protein balance. By FAR the most important thing is to keep your carbs low, I would suggest less than 20g total per day.
Just eat lots of fatty meat, eggs, full fat dairy (cream and cheese is best), fish, and only a very small amount of veg/fruit (keep these almost as a condiment).
And please be patient. You are already losing weight, it is slow and steady wins the race. Don’t cut calories… eat loads, feel full at the end of your meals. If you need a snack between meals it means you didn’t eat enough at the previous meal.
If you want to increase fat, then my recommendation is to add a large slab of butter to each meal. Super healthy, great as a condiment, and tastes fantastic. And 100% fat. Bootiful! And to get lots of meat fat my favourite is a rump steak with a large slab of fat attached… that steak fat is just gorgeous!!
Take care and good luck!
Cheers
Alec
Hello Brian and Welcome.
Like me you may start off over complicating things. That’s natural until you work out what suits you.
My advice (based on what worked for me)
Study the experts online - Dr Berry etc (youtube)
Over time get the carbs as low as you can.
Experiment (everyone is a little different)
Salt to taste (you need these electrolyes)
Keep your diet simple (you get a taste for real food)
Bacon is perfect (fatty meat naturally has a great fat/protein ratio)
Cook with Ghee, butter and tallow (olive oil heated may not be the best)
Expect good things to happen (after a little practice)
Visit this Forum (these guys helped me so much and still do)
Thank you all for the responses. Shinita you asked me about my macros which is where my concern was. Upon doing a little more research I realized that I was calculating my macros based solely on grams without converting the number of grams to calories, thus not taking into account the much higher nutrient density of fat, duh! So now I see that I am getting plenty of fat. I can't give precise percentages because I just kind of "ballpark it".
Kib1 and MeganNZ asked what my goals are. I'm 62 y/o & just retired. 5'-11" and in recent years have gotten up to 220# area. On BP med & have a lot of joint pain. Much of the joint pain probably attributable to sports injuries from years ago + some injuries from nearly 40 years of fairly physical work. So, I would like to lose weight, in the range of 20-30#. Would think that would lower the BP (perhaps allowing me to get off the med) as well as help with the joint pain, at least the knees (carrying less weight around). Also, in last year or so have been having arthritis flare ups in my ankles (again, many sprains over the years) and left shoulder (2 surgeries). Hoping that losing weight through low carb diet will reduce inflammation & thus help with that issue.I just composed a fairly lengthy reply (for me) to the the responses that I received to my first post. Somehow, when I posted to the forum all that was saved was the first two lines:slightly_frowning_face: I’m not the most “tech savvy” individual. Don’t have time to retype the post now but will be back on later. Thanks again!
Okay, I think I was able to recovery that reply. Gonna try to repost it, fingers crossed:
Thank you all for the responses. Shinita you asked me about my macros which is where my concern was. Upon doing a little more research I realized that I was calculating my macros based solely on grams without converting the number of grams to calories, thus not taking into account the much higher nutrient density of fat, duh! So now I see that I am getting plenty of fat. I can’t give precise percentages because I just kind of “ballpark it”.
Kib1 and MeganNZ asked what my goals are. I’m 62 y/o & just retired. 5’-11" and in recent years have gotten up to 220# area. On BP med & have a lot of joint pain. Much of the joint pain probably attributable to sports injuries from years ago + some injuries from nearly 40 years of fairly physical work. So, I would like to lose weight, in the range of 20-30#. Would think that would lower the BP (perhaps allowing me to get off the med) as well as help with the joint pain, at least the knees (carrying less weight around). Also, in last year or so have been having arthritis flare ups in my ankles (again, many sprains over the years) and left shoulder (2 surgeries). Hoping that losing weight through low carb diet will reduce inflammation & thus help with that issue.
Hooo, gram to gram comparison, that’s a whole lot more fat calories! That’s not necessarily a bad thing, but as you say, probably not necessary to go hunting for more, provided you’re getting adequate total calories.
Keto flu is usually a matter of too little table salt. Without a lot of glucose, the body starts / ramps up metabolic processes that deplete or excrete salt. There’s quite a bit of research showing that a higher salt intake is ordinarily associated with better health, not sickness, and unless you start seeing an alarming rise in blood pressure (despite what the medical community says, salt related hypertension is actually unusual), it’s advisable to consume as much salt as feels pleasant to you.
I’m gonna be 62 in a few months. Kinda hard to imagine how I got here! I’ve been on keto for about two years and I really don’t have any health complaints, don’t take any prescription meds, and lost about 25% of my body weight over time without feeling deprived. I’m convinced that clean eating that avoids concentrated carbs and sugars, especially processed ones, is elemental to long term health. I’m also a big fan of primarily animal fats, which seem for the most part a much more natural diet than commercially torturing low fat plants like soy and corn to somehow extract oil out of them.
I think you will see interesting and gratifying results if you stick with it, and you seem to be on the right track, so good luck and welcome to the tribe. 
That’s perfectly fine, grams are informative. More than percentages…
I was curious about your grams, actually. They aren’t enough to see if you have the right macros, of course as I don’t know your needs but still, they help somewhat 
If you eat lots of protein, you don’t necessarily need even more fat unless you have a high energy need as well.
I always think about grams when it’s about fat/protein ratio… 1:1 is a very valid number, after all while in percentages, fat tends to overpower everything else on keto And grams make sense to me. Percentages come into play when it is about my tastes only… Or when I am curious about that number too. I had years at 65% fat for some reason, almost whatever I did, I barely ate (for me) or seriously overate, I usually was around that and a normal day, basically always! Or not too far. It was fun but made sense as it was the leanest I enjoyed. But grams are important and informative for me.
And whatever you use, grams or percentages, there isn’t some golden ratio, you just need enough energy, protein, nutrients and little carbs! And to figure out how to do it right and easy enough. I don’t care about my fat grams either as long as I eat the right amount of food (not too little, not too much, it’s not the same every day though usually it doesn’t change much) and my nutritional needs are met as far as I know. Protein is where the grams should be in the right range (extreme days here and there are fine), we have lower and upper limit for that. Not so much for fat, only lower limit but it’s extremely low, ketoers really don’t need to worry about it (except the ones who truly barely eat but that’s an extreme situation). Not like too much protein is a concern for most but we exceptions exist and I for one doesn’t want wasteful, unnecessary protein eating even if I never can reach a state where I actually get sick from too much protein (some people manage even that).
IMO, the simple answer to your question is nuts. Most are high in fat and low in carbs. Some like macadamias, walnuts, pecans, hazelnuts, and (almost) almonds have practically no carbs. Peanuts too. The one that is highest in carbs are the really big cashews and those are probably not a great keto food.
Maybe it’s just from eating very low carb for so long, but I rarely even think about macros or ketone levels or any of that. It’s really quite simple. Eat fatty meat, eat eggs, eat butter, stop when comfortably stuffed.
Most of my lesser moments happen when I add stuff to that. I love some kinds of veg and fruits but they don’t love me. Do I still eat some, yeah. Do I feel better when I don’t, yeah. Even the low-carb veg / fruits.
Are you hungry when you eat or are you eating because it’s time? Also, when you eat, are you completely satisfied? How soon are you hungry again? At least for me, if I’ve not eaten enough fat, I’ll be hungry a lot sooner than if I’ve eaten plenty. It’s become self-regulating over time. If I’ve eaten enough fat, even being around food won’t make me hungry. If I’ve eaten enough protein to go with, I will have plenty of energy, too, especially with beef. (Then again, for me, anything with less fat than 80/20 in beef is considered lean.)
Salt and fat are two things that, at least for me, are somewhat self-regulating. If I have eaten enough salt, I won’t want to eat more salty stuff. If I have eaten enough fat, I won’t tend to want to eat any more fat. They’ll both become undesirable to me. That might be different for different people and may take your body a while to figure out. But in my case, it did figure it out quite well.
Also, I have zero interest in counting calories. Maybe some find some value there but to me it was never any more than a fool’s errand.
I’m all good since I realized my error. Eating plenty of of protein and fat along with fibrous veggies like broccoli. Mixing in avocados and nuts also. Thanks to everyone here who responded to my posts. Each and every one was very helpful. I have no deadlines so I’m just going to stick with the program and see what happens.