New, starving, and confused

(Bacon is better) #21

If you are not a counter, then you don’t need to count calories or calculate macros. The key insight from this way of eating is that the kinds of foods we are eating make more of a difference than the amount of calories.

“Eat less, move more” is a recipe for disaster in a high-carbohydrate diet, because the body responds to large amount of carbohydrate by secreting large amounts of insulin, which is the primary hormone signaling our fat cells to store fat. When we eat in a way that lowers our insulin, we actually have more energy, because less of it is getting trapped in our fat cells. And more energy circulating in the blood means less hunger, because our bodies are getting fed. In a low-carb situation, the body can speed up our metabolism, use energy to be active and healthy, build up our muscles, and all those good things. And fat, because it has almost no effect at all on how much insulin we secrete, is the perfect source of energy to fuel all these activities.

What people find is that, by eating enough food, we cause our appetite to reset itself at a level that lets us burn off some of our extra fat. The key lies in the hunger and satiety hormones. Insulin not only signals fat cells to keep storing fat, it also blocks the brain from receiving the hormone those cells send it to say they are getting full—another reason we are hungry most of the time when we eat carbohydrate. Lowering insulin lets the satiety hormones get through to the brain, and our appetite then becomes a reliable guide to how much food we need. And since the body can usually find a good use for extra energy, the actual number of calories we end up eating gets adjusted by our appetite. So listening to our body is what lets us get away without calculating macros or counting calories.

(Parker the crazy crone lady) #22

Chiming in to encourage you to drink more water than you probably ever have before, and eat lots of salt. Start with 2 or 3 tsp/day, and if you get flu-like symptoms, eat more salt. Search this forum for ketoaide and try that.
Also, I’m going to bet many of your carbs are coming from both the half and half, and especially the salad dressing.
Healthy fats are your friend. Carbs are your enemy. Keep one close and kick the other to the curb as much as possible. Don’t starve yourself. If you keep reading this forum, especially the newby posts to start, you’ll learn a ton, and it’ll start making sense. :blush:

(Hyperbole- best thing in the universe!) #23

You’ve gotten a lot of good advice here already :slightly_smiling_face: but I’ll just add that Amy Berger’s videos on YouTube are fantastic for explaining all these things and not over complicating it.

Also, I think the people saying to make your husband cook for himself mean well. But each family has their own division of labor. My opinion (and that is all it is) is that he will adjust to this change better if you keep things as normal for him as is reasonable. Eating keto is your choice, not his. But, if he sees your success and the good food you are eating, that may cause him to rethink his diet far better than refusing to make him some mashed potatoes would do.

(Marianne) #24

@PammyB, yes, please do stick with it.

This is a true statement, at least for me.

Until your body switches over comfortably to the keto way of eating (WOE), I wouldn’t track macros - just eat more (to satiety)! Are you comfortable saying how much you have to lose?

Example meals:
For breakfast, I’d have: 3 eggs scrambled in butter, three slices bacon or breakfast sausage links, coffee with a little heavy cream. (If you don’t feel like eating it all, save it.)

Chicken, egg or tuna salad with ample mayo. Supplement with a green salad, some bacon and/or hard boiled egg with full fat ranch or blue cheese dressing.

Good sized pork steak with broccoli sauteed in butter or add some bacon grease. You could also add a salad. Again, if you are full and don’t want to finish your meal, save it for lunch next day.

These are just examples. The meal possibilities are endless. As @momof5 said, you shouldn’t feel hungry. If you are, you body is talking to you and telling you to eat more. After a couple of weeks of this, you likely will not want to eat as much or as often. You may find yourself skipping a meal and eating only two meals a day. Whatever you do, it should be a comfortable transition. No white knuckle here.

In the meantime, try to let go of all the old ideas about dieting (I even hate the word now), eat, read up and post here, and trust that it is happening.

(Pam) #25

Again, that you all SO SO much. Today has been a little easier. Had scrambled eggs and bacon at breakfast, a boiled egg as a snack later, a burger without the bun and a little mustard and mayo at lunch. Dinner is supposed to be brats tonight - so it will probably be a brat, sauerkraut, and mustard again. And water or sprite zero to drink. I have not felt hungry today so that’s a plus!!

My ultimate goal is to lose about 40 lbs…but if we are really being honest I would settle for 25. I would love to be down 20lbs by Christmas time, but I am not sure how that will work with holiday eating.

As for centering my meals - I was trying to pick something close to what I had and used it. I have never measured food - so I am sure my portion sizes are too large. I am working on measuring things now.

Again thank to everyone for making me feel so welcome!

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #26

Bacon and egg over ground beef. Tamari sauce to taste. Breakfast of Champions.

No more eggs!
(Joey) #27

I use CarbManager too. I can attest that if it says you should only eat 1200 kcal/day you have set something up incorrectly. For now, please set it to a “maintenance” diet. It sounds like it got set to the “inhumane prison camp” setting. :wink:

Please stop starving yourself. Eat fat, not carbs. And eat 'til you’re full. Everything else will sort itself out over time.

I’m going to blunt again here. Tell your family to pound snot.

If they throw a fit, simply duck. Then, either kick them out of the house or go somewhere else for a while for your own sake. Sadly, they need to be trained in respect and decency for you - as their mother and wife. I hate to be crass but, for better or worse, it sounds like you will be outliving your husband, so plan accordingly.

You must take control of your own life. You deserve nothing less.

But for now, eat all that delicious fat - and let the rest of the thankless family fend for themselves. Who knows? … perhaps they can survive on 1200 kcal per day. You can’t.

Keto is about eating all that healthy fat to satiety AND enjoying it… a lot! Please don’t give up until this is how it feels for you. When it does, you’ll probably be doing it just right.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #28

Joey, sometimes you rise to the sublime! This is one of those times. @PammyB your husband is type 2 diabetic! What does he intend to do? Wait until the amputations begin? I don’t get it.


It doesn’t hurt to track such things for a while at the start to ensure that you’re not consistently undereating. Even years into keto some people like to track for short periods - no harm in it if you’re looking to tweak things & it’s providing actionable information.

(Polly) #31

I so totally agree with this. At the beginning the easiest thing is to count nothing except carbs. To get all involved in calories and macros is making it more difficult than it needs to be and unless you find your body does not recognise being “satisfied but not stuffed” there should never be a need to count anything other than carbs.

(PJ) #32

Salad, if it has enough stuff to be interesting, usually has carbs. Most dressings even herbal vinaigrettes, have carbs.

The easiest thing is this: EAT MEAT. That is the primary food.

To that, you can add things like eggs, cheese, and a little bit of fibrous veggies.

Once you adapt to the eating plan, you can shift this around, you’ll be more familiar with carb counts and such, and you can probably up your veggie intake, add a little bit of fibrous fruits, and so on. (Only if you want.)

Your first day was 2 eggs in the morning, and salad for lunch and dinner? – I think your idea of a keto diet is more like a typical diet, which it’s not. You’re not eating remotely enough, especially of protein and fats.

Why are you limiting protein, especially to begin? Is it some rare medical condition? Because the only thing you should need to worry about initially is your net carb count – you can track the rest, but really, EAT UNTIL YOU ARE FULL. Just don’t do it on foods with carbs. That you managed to eat 2 eggs, 2 salads, and were nearly over carbs means you’re putting your focus somewhere other than keto priorities.

If you have a real hard time with the ‘eat meat’ thing initially, you can try something like this:

Make some shredded chicken, chopped hard boiled eggs, and make a mix of chicken and egg salad. When I make it, it has a tiny bit of celery, sweet peppers, scallions, those DO have carbs so just use a little. Get a gram scale if you don’t have one and use the USDA online database to pretty easily look up the carbs in real foods. This forum’s reference board has a link and how-to thread for that.

Mayo and mustard have almost no carbs (check your mustard they do vary), chicken has none, eggs have very few, and because the chicken is so high protein and the mayo so high fat, it’s very filling and satiating. Also, you can store it in serving-size containers for convenience – small ones, it’s filling – and eat it through the day or when you feel munchy, and it’s instant food since it’s cold, also makes a good work lunch or something.

You should not be hungry on keto. This is important and it’s one reason why the eating plan works so well for so many.


(Bunny) #33

I would not be too concerned about macros right now if your ending up hungry, there are more simple answers to your dilemma,

Eat more fat, as much as you want, I do this until I felt as if I ate one more drop of fat I would be sick for life and nauseous and you will start to notice how much farther you can spread out your eating windows; I dreaded my next eating window that’s what made me realize I was not really hungry at all, keep the intake of protein down to 30 grams like for example 7 slices of thick bacon. Another example fry your eggs in grass fed butter, tallow or suet with that bacon grease, the cheaper and fattier meats and bacon is the best and healthiest (seriously it truly is) and add an avocado to that.

Lots (drench it) of your favorite extra virgin oils on salads with a splash of Apple Cider Vinegar or vinegrette? (helps break up the body fat)

What you want is real fatty foods to help you feel satiated and not feeling like your starving to death so I would lose the macro charts and apps for now, all that’s going to do is frustrate you to no end trying to play with the math when your body is simply hungry and wants more fattier foods even though you may be lead to believe it does not.

(Joey) #34

I’m definitely with you on most of what you’ve posted. But I’d suggest that salads are an essential part of keto, especially early on, because they’re so healthy, filling, and can serve as a vehicle for fat/protein “delivery” that’s often missed when cutting out things like bread, wraps, tortillas, chips, etc.

The key is to simply avoid the underground veggies and eat those above-ground lush green leafy ones. Then slather on the meat, cheese, eggs, fish, etc. … make it a glorious cobb salad. Lettuce, spinach, cabbage, cucumbers, olives, along with beef, chicken, sardines, salmon, cubed hard cheeses, hard-boiled eggs, etc. Man! What a low-carb feast.

But you’re right about those dressings. VERY few are low carb and almost all off-the-shelf ingredient lists begin with Soybean Oil <<< AVOID!!

Instead, get some olive oil and balsamic vinegar (the kind without sugar) and go to town. It’s moist, flavorful, yet doesn’t get in the way of those other delicious salad components.

One slight tweak here… Many mayo brands are made with vegetable oils (soybean oil typically a top ingredient). There are just a few brands of Avocado Mayo that do not have any such keto-unfriendly ingredients. Seek them out - they’re worth it.

(Pam) #35

As far as my husband goes - well I am not sue what to say. He is a type 2 diabetic, has been for probably 10-12 years…for the longest time I could not get him even to take meds…much less change his diet. Then I got him on meds that he agreed to take (Januvia and Invokana) but he still refused to change his diet and had an A1C of, at the best of times, around 9-10. Now I have changed jobs, lost the great medical insurance I had and new insurance will not pay for his meds, so he is taking other stuff that does not regulate him as well, and he still eats anything and everything he wants. Ice-cream and sweets, loads of starches. I made a great keto chicken cordon bleu the other night. He LOVES it - says it tastes great but threw a fit because I didn’t make some kind of starch to go with it. He already has nerve pain in his feet and is complaining about his vision changing. I have tried and tried to get him to change and while I have not given up per say … I simply stopped fighting about it. I dont buy the sweets unless he specifically wants it - but I cook what he wants cooked and let him have it.

(PJ) #36

Howdy SomeGuy,

They can be, but when someone is new to keto and thinks they’re starving I’d send them to meat. As I mentioned in my answer, as soon as they know the program a little better they can switch up to a lot more veggies etc. if they like.

Many mayo brands are made with vegetable oils (soybean oil typically a top ingredient). There are just a few brands of Avocado Mayo that do not have any such keto-unfriendly ingredients. Seek them out - they’re worth it.

Agreed… AND… they’re also like ten bucks a jar. Not arguing over health here, but particularly for someone on day 3 working to figure out their food, I don’t usually stress on the details because them getting their carbs right, and having food they can enjoy, has to come first. Once they are adapted and it doesn’t seem so hard anymore, we can work on the improvements around the edges.

It’s too much at once for people new to keto who are often overwhelmed with being introduced to actual nutrition – many people don’t even know macronutrients let alone micronutrients, they only know calories – many are still on “OK, mango and popcorn are out, wait, what CAN I eat?!” heh. Focus on much of anything beyond carb-count at first ends up being more harm than help to many.

Peace, and by the way homemade bluecheese dressing is the only REAL dressing I love on salads, I just didn’t want to inflict more complication on someone. :grin:


(Joey) #37

@RightNOW All excellent points! I appreciate the benefits of keeping it simple and straightforward. :+1:

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #38

Thanks for responding, you don’t need to. I’m an often cantankerous geezer. From your perspective not fighting over it is a workable strategy and I do understand that. I hope it minimizes what must be a painful thing to go through. I lost a sister as a child to a congenital disease. Although unavoidable at the time due to the nature of the disease, that tragedy tore my family apart like a bomb blast.

What I really don’t get is your husband’s attitude. He’s been on medication for more than a decade, is starting to experience early symptoms of worse to come. Much worse. Yet he remains in denial. Maybe some of the folks on this forum who have dealt with T2D successfully can offer helpful suggestions. My attitude towards people with a death wish is to stay out of their way. Which doesn’t help you. I hope your husband faces up to his situation soon enough to avoid the worst.

(Joey) #39

@PammyB Given the additional info you’ve shared above pertaining to how your husband deals with his T2D health situation, my heart goes out to you.

He’s clearly lucky to have you and the help you provide him. Meanwhile, please continue to take care of your own health, too, as you now are.

Beyond my earlier “rant” were I to continue offering suggestions they’d likely fall outside the range of keto forum topics and into the category of “marriage counseling” - so I’d best refrain.

Best wishes. Meanwhile, MANGIA! (feed yourself!)

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #40

More like $15 here in Vancouver (for a small jar half the size of a regular mayo container)! Plus, all the coconut and avocado based mayos I’ve tried share some off-flavour that really disgusts me. I think it might be rosemary. Don’t know why they put that in there unless trying to cover up some worse flavour. I bought a stick blender some time ago for the express purpose of making my own mayo, but haven’t gotten around to it yet. But my experiences with available brands (Chosen, Primal) are nudging me towards it. Inevitably.

(PJ) #41

Yeah, I didn’t like the avocado normal one, but the Chipotle Lime was surprisingly good, and I generally do not like stuff like that. (I like peppers and lime, but not products with those flavors, and don’t like smoked flavors which Chipotle is.) In the end though, it tasted like mayo “with warmth.” I don’t mean spicy. I mean depth. I didn’t taste either of the alleged flavors. Just an odd sense of warm depth. I took to adding just a little bit like 1/4 of my mayo, as that form, and it was really good that way.

But I can’t begin to afford to buy the stuff regularly and use it as the sole ingredient which I don’t like so much that way anyway. I’ve made mayo myself a few times but so far I have always thought it was vile.

When I was a kid, I grew up on margarine and miracle whip. So when I hit adulthood, I thought butter and mayo tasted fake. It’s probably the same taste bud psychology. :roll_eyes:

I really only eat mayo in three instances now: my favorite non-meat food ever, a garlic cheese spread; the rare but occasional deli sandwich, using ‘disks’ I make (imagine a chaffle, but no eggy taste, tortilla-pressed and baked instead); and chicken-egg salad. :slight_smile: