Did anyone receive a notification from Diet Doctor that they are going to unveil a new program before the end of the year? I forget the initials, but from what I could gather, it is based on food classifications by “satiety” levels moreso than protein/fat/carb macros. After thinking about it, it kind of makes sense. I’m guessing that a ribeye has a higher satiety index than a chicken breast, salad, apple, lean pork chop, etc. IDK, maybe this will help people make easily identified choices that will hold them and quell sugar/carb cravings without having to track conventional macros. Kind of a no brainer for those of us who have done this for a while, but it may be just the thing for people just starting out. If they want to further investigate the science of low carb eating, they can do so.
New format for DD
There was a huge fight about this. See here for instance:
One of the ideas, especially by Ted Naiman, who is part of this system, is that protein is more satiating. While I agree somewhat, it’s not a panacea. I can eat a high protein diet, say with leaner beef, but put ice cream in front of me, and I’m overeating.
Furthermore, not everyone reacts equally the same to the same foods. I can never find the original study, but this is a group out of Israel that gave CGMs to people to attempt to recreate the glycemic index. What they found was vastly different responses to the same food for different people. I see people who say that oats are filling. Yet, when I eat oats, I’m starving 15 minutes later. This discusses something similar:
https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(15)01481-6
So, food that causes one person to have satiety is different from food that causes another person
For me, eating fatty beef and lamb is very satiating. Pork takes a little more to satiate but it depends on the cut. Ham, I can eat a lot without getting satisfied but ribs? Oh yeah, very satisfying. Duck (domestic) , I need to eat a lot to be satiated but I really love the fatty taste. Chicken and turkey? They just don’t satiate that much. The only satisfaction I get from them is if I eat the skin along with the dark meat.
A food fight … about satiety, no less. 
While this might seem like an ideal topic for serious nutritionists to study, I would think that (as noted above) levels of satiety vary widely among individuals per food item.
Much of our sense of being satisfied (with most anything in our daily lives) is tied up in emotional, experiential, and expectation-based variables.
One size fits one.
That was my first thought too. It’s one of my fav topics and I read about it a lot. There are some general ideas (protein, volume, fiber) but everyone is different and it is one thing where individual differences are HUGE. I can easily eat a lot of meat without satiation if it’s not the right kind. Some people say they can’t get satiated without a bunch of fruits (that’s pretty odd, fruits tend to make many of us super hungry even in the middle of our otherwise perfect satiation period. and it sounds quite bad if one NEEDS it, what is the logic in that? but our body may have odd logic, mine provides plenty of examples).
Satiation is extremely individual. Fibers never had any effect to me. Fats don’t really satiate me. Vegs make me hungry. Oats don’t make me hungry 15 mins later, they make me hungry immediately as they are carbs. And just like you, Bob, if I add wrong items to my wonderfully satiating carni food, I stay/get hungry. I tried that a few times. A decent, highly satiating carnivore meal in, like, 1300 kcal, I get satiated… But if I immediately eat some carby dessert, I get hungry again and will need a small bunch of fatty animal protein to get rid of it. Scary but it’s my reality. Probably it doesn’t always happen. I rarely do this mess, perfect carni meal followed by something extremely carby. My carby sweets usually are very high-fat and usually protein-rich and that balances things out. As I easily get very satiated using high-carb food, I just need it to be very much, very fatty and protein rich. And I never ever have found any non-animal carbs without a hunger inducing effect. But I know they are just great for some other people. My SO get satiated by anything, basically. Except low-carb food most of the time (there are very rare exceptions) and probably pure carbs but he doesn’t eat pure carbs. But oatmeal, low-carb cake (keto base with fruits including raisins), eggs with some carby side? Their satiation level is exactly the same. Give him 1000 kcal of any of them for breakfast and he will be satiated for 6-8 hours. The duration of satiation is quite individual too, he has this long time while I get hungry in 1-3 hours after a smaller than OMAD sized meal.
Timing matters a lot but probably a bunch of other things too. In my case, it’s mostly food choices, timing and size of meal.
Overeating is another thing as just eating satiating items aren’t enough to avoid it. Maybe for some, not for me.
I heard this from many, me included (and I suspect fish is similar but I never ate much of it at once). Sometimes it’s better but I had two times when I ate about 1 kg chicken thigh, with skin of course and was STARVING afterwards.
Beef is super effective so probably all ruminant meat are…? Pork is still good but it depends on the fattiness. I can epically overeat on carnivore using really fatty pork. It’s still better than chicken, I needed 2 meals for my 1kg pork shoulder (two times) but I ate a lot of other food… While 600g beef (and one yolk as no way I completely skip eggs for a day) satiated me for a whole day and I felt quite satisfied too so no part of me could even think about eating more later. I need another try, it only happened once but beef is always satiating, I feel that.
On vegetarian keto, my top satiating item was egg but it’s quite poor compared to pork or beef… Super easy to eat quite many even after I already had enough food for a day. Maybe because I drink some and eat some in desserts. I almost always have room for more dessert…
And dairy is extremely bad for satiation just like fat, hence I try to avoid these as much as I comfortably can. I can afford some if my main meat is lean. But I still manage to overeat if my timing is off.
Satisfaction is individual too, of course. But we talk about satiation, the two are wildly different. Maybe not for everyone but they are in my case. I may be super satiated and full but unsatisfied as I didn’t get enough enjoyment. I need both so satisfaction is something I need to take into account as well (people who doesn’t care about joy from eating don’t need to do that - or their satisfaction is something else, not joy…?). While satiation is almost fixed for my items in my case (no idea if it’s true for others. in my case, pairing matters. chicken isn’t bad if I only eat a little and paired with something satiating), satisfaction depends on various factors. It’s normal, the same food may feel great or meh for the same person at different times. But lower satisfaction is fine for short term while satiation is very much needed every time. At least for me as I can’t stand lack of satiation, I eat then. I may not eat when I lack satisfaction but if it was too long, I probably will eat or drink, thankfully it doesn’t requires calories, just enjoyment though it’s better when it’s proper food.
I don’t think there’s a WOE on the planet that can overcome second stomach syndrome!
I eat oats most days around my workouts, usually around 20-25g in my protein sludge bowl. No issues, BUT if I crank that up to an actual “Serving” which is still only 40g, a coupe hours later I get REAL hungry, not carb cravings, just crazy hunger. That’s happening even though I’m on Semaglutide to keep the monster down! If I did that with a huge 300g sweet potato, then I hit FULL! Even for crap that I’d want to eat. I’m with ya, people have to figure themselves out, we’re way too different to go by some cookie cutter that somebody that wasn’t us allegedly figured out.
Currently using MacroFactor for tracking, which I’m willing to say is the best thing to ever happen for Macro Trackers, but one thing I did in the past with Cronometer was made a custom tracker for hunger and used it daily so I could actually graph my hunger levels against what I was eating, was pretty cool.
Precisely. As such, measuring satiety - something that must be self-reported - would be like chasing smoke.
Agreed. It will be interesting to see what other strategies the program will recommend. It’s called Hava.
For me, the feeling of being satiated requires me to be mentally present. Not thinking of anything other than my meal/food. I am much more apt to overeat if I am doing/thinking something else.
Interestingly, I am finding it to be pretty much true, what carnivores say about eating no longer being an emotional issue. I generally don’t crave carbs at all anymore, except for the spaghetti my sister made for her son a couple of days ago. Spaghetti was my carb of choice (along with glazed doughnuts, which I no longer miss, interestingly), so that was not a surprise. And while a month ago I would have yielded to temptation, this time I saw the spaghetti, wanted it, but didn’t touch it. Never would have happened before!
I’ve taken to heart Anthony Chaffee’s advice about hunger and satiety: he says that if you’re not sure you’re hungry, try some meat. If it doesn’t taste good, put it away for later; you’re not hungry. If it tastes good, eat it; you’re hungry. When it stops tasting good, stop eating it; you’re sastified. I’m finding this works really well for me.
I also find that, while I definitely am not satisfied unless I get enough protein, it’s fat that I crave. I can eat a lot of it, and on carnivore I don’t sweat buckets during the night when I do. I’m also not gaining weight from all that fat; instead, my belly has shrunk a little. I just noticed that my belt is a notch tighter than it was when I bought it.
I have been a carb addict for 57 years, but I found a wagon I could stay on for the first time 2 years ago. Still on it. Like you, I no longer crave carbs… not dissimilar to not craving alcohol when I gave that up 9 years ago. Carnivore is a fantastic way of life for anyone who struggles with a carb addiction. It just works.
Carnivore showed me that non-animal carbs can mess with me even on keto (my planty keto was 40g net carbs but still. if I eat 40g sugar on or near carnivore, it’s fine)… Things got so much better when I dropped them (and harder again when I raise them again, maybe not on the first day if it’s subtle but later).
I don’t think I ever had a sugar addiction as skipping added sugar and most high-carb items was super easy but non-animal carbs still are problematic for me, they make me a different (and not better) person when it comes to eating, I experience physical and mental changes (well I always had them before so carnivore brought the changes).
I really don’t have any cravings anymore, but I often think if I were to go off plan, I would want spaghetti and meatballs over the million and one other things - and glazed donuts!!! Those were my favorites, too!