New carnivore and it's working! Somewhat

(Chris Kornelsen) #1

First thanks for all the help tjis community has given me. It’s been a great benefit to me. I started carnivore 2 week ago after 4-5 months of semi strict keto. I’m doing it to figure out my digestion and IBS. So far I’ve had almost.no IBS issues or stomach pain(other than when I eat to much). And my bowel movements while still 2-3 days apart I think that’s more typical for carnivore. Still got time to see.

Now I’m hoping that’s truly working but I do have a couple quedtions ans concerns.

  1. I feel quite tired and fatigued regularly. Possibly adaptation? Which I’ve been keto for awhile?
  2. Ketones are super low and I’m doing 2:1 ratio. Meaning I get 100g of protein and 200g of fat. I wake up not in ketosis and never am above 0.5. Is there something about carnivore that stalls ketosis? Could he my fatigue?
  3. Muscles super sore and I’m getting subtle Injuiries and tendonitis in some.places. This could be coincidence from work but I’m not sure?
  4. I’m confused about hunger and OMAD. I may do a seperate thread on this but how can I knkw what js true hunger and what is habit? And should I he having my heavy cream coffee all day ans s consider myself fasted?
(Bob M) #2

What were your levels before?

I’m rarely above 0.5 in the mornings (LC/keto almost 6 years), and I eat waaayyyy more protein than 100g/day.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #3

You are describing carb withdrawal. If you stay sub-20 grams per day, carb withdrawal normally goes away after a few weeks or month or two. What exactly do you mean ‘4-5 months of semi strict keto’? Are you calculating carbs? If you’re not, I recommend you do so. If you have been lackadaisical about carbs, it’s very possible that you have been or are in/out of ketosis daily and that’s a double whammy. There are hidden carbs in almost everything and if you’re not careful you can consume lots more than you realize. The recommendation on this forum is to stay sub-20 grams of carbs per day, but if you’re insulin resistant you might have to lower the carbs even more. Depending on just how insulin resistant and how long you’ve been so determines how long it takes to repair the damage.

(Chris Kornelsen) #4

I tend to have low ketones. Usually .5 in the morning then goes down in the afternoon and I’m highest at night

(Chris Kornelsen) #5

No I count everything. By semi strict I mean for 2 months I was very strict. Then for 2 months or so every 2 weeks I’d have a carb up day then go back to keto. And I would track my ketones. Recently went carnivore but it seems to be fatiguing me more

(Cancer Fighting Ketovore :)) #6

Try drinking some water or green tea. Sometimes having something to drink will soothe any mild hunger feelings. If they decrase or go away then you weren’t really hungry.

It depends on what you are fasting for. When I fast for autophagy I drink KetoAide or water and nothing else. I even try to avoid MCT oil. However, when I’m doing OMAD (one meal a day) then I’ll have a little heavy cream or tea w/ some sweetener. But it might be best to limit the cream :slight_smile:

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #7

The issue of fatigue is usually this. After years of glucose/glycogen burning, muscles take time to readapt to burning fatty acids instead. Driving glucose/glycogen low enough via keto forces the muscles to start adapting by first utilizing ketones. Burning ketones is not as efficient as either glucose/glycogen or fatty acids, so a common experience is fatigue and weakness.

If insulin resistance is not an issue, then the utilization of fatty acids usually replaces utilization of ketones with a few weeks and the fatigue goes away. If insulin resistance is an issue then despite low carb intake, insulin levels remain higher than optimal. This in turn restricts both lypolysis generally and ketogenesis specifically. So essentially the muscles get starved of both glucose/glycogen and ketones/fatty acids. That’s the ‘double whammy’ I referred to above. I don’t know of any way to deal with this than just to tough it out. Keeping glucose low enough long enough will literally force fat adaptation, although insulin resistance will prolong the agony.

‘Carb up’ days inhibit the process and could actually reverse any progress that has occurred since the previous ‘carb up’ day. This is especially the case when insulin resistance is present.

(Bob M) #8

That’s exactly my pattern, too.

(Edith) #9

My salt need went up when I went more carnivore in my eating. Traveling muscles aches is one of my low sodium symptoms.

#10

Tired is normal and adaption. You will be ok. Eat good protein and fat as needed and just let the fatigue happen. Won’t stay too long. I was SO exhausted I could barely move for a few days, but it all goes away.

Ketones are best measured with blood meter. When you drop ALL carbs you are in ketosis point blank. You have to be :slight_smile: The ketones and how the body uses them changes. A ketone strip won’t ever register them correctly. Ketone strips to keto adapted bodies are useless mostly.

A lot of salt is true. In the beginning I also took some magnesium. I know it helped something LOL cause I felt a tad better but now I have dropped that magnesium cause I don’t need it.

Hunger. Real hunger. Takes time to ‘feel it’…that difference between a habit programmed meal time feeling and real hunger. Just eat as you see fit. As you feel you need to eat. Never deny yourself. You will all of the sudden realize you are truly not hungry…and when hungry, oh boy you will know. worked this way for me.

heavy cream coffee is fine. I mean you enjoy it, why not.

Are you fasting? Didn’t catch the last line in a way…you mean you are not eating cause you are not hungry so that is fasting to you? If you are ‘fasting’ cause you are just not hungry at all, yes your coffee is absolutely fine! You are not doing an intentional forced fast. You just are not eating solid food cause you aren’t hungry. But if you think that cream and coffee IS keeping you from kinda wanting real meats, then water replacement would be better. Not a coffee drinker here but I read some say jacked up coffee can take away their appetite a bit…so focus is on real meats/seafood over drinks.

(Chris Kornelsen) #11

I supplement saltnin my drinks and even doing keto any amount never made a difference hah

(Chris Kornelsen) #12

So as I said I’ve been keto awhile do I really need to adapt more? I feel 5 months is enough hah. I never did feel this surge kf energy people keep talking about.

I do use a blood meter my wife is type 1 we got tons kf meters hah

I drink salt water but even in keto I never found it made much difference. Only if I didnt have enough I’d get s headache

Ya I find the hunger the toughest. I forced myself to do IF 16/8 early keto and it just ended up working. But no matter how long I do jt jm always hunger when I wake up, hungry at noon and right when I get home. But those are also the times I used to snack when I was SAD. So not sure if i need longer than 5 months to break that hah

#13

semi strict keto

issues right there, no one here knows what that means.

thing is if one wants true results personally then one must do the plan they set out to do in true form to know if it is compatible.

we can pretend and guess and have ‘treat nights off’ and more and I am NOT saying this is you but if you give things a fair shake in the full truth, results can be way different.

carnivore and keto are 2 different animals in the food categories and in keto your options are well more than ever in carnivore so yes adaption again can easily kick hard. thing is give it time :slight_smile:

no one ever wants to here this…who does? I want the magic pill but I sure haven’t found it yet.

ANY change of plan in experimenting on yourself, new plans adopted, old plans you ‘kinda’ were strict but playing around…all work against you in some fashion. In that experimenting is great cause you learn physically your choices. New plans are fab IF THEY are followed. Old plans being rigged to suit your daily needs as you want aren’t worth anything.

not saying this is you…please I am not. but if anything each physical body is so different that it could take a lot longer to detox than one thinks.

30 days tops on strict plan shows a lot. semi strict anything can leave one open to a lot of questions of why why why when other’s are great I am lacking?

just a chat…nothing more…discussions are a good thing LOL

(Katie) #14

I am glad that you are liking it so far and that your IBS has had some relief. A few things come to mind:

  • Try eliminating dairy as well, to see if that is causing issues. Dairy is problematic for many people.

  • If I am not mistaken, 100g of protein + 200g of fat is ~2,200 calories; is that enough for you?

  • As you get more comfortable with your diet, really assess if you are hungry or not when you are questioning if you should eat. Many people who do carnivore (not all though) eat once or twice a day. People prefer that because then they are actually hungry for their meals, and because intermittent fasting is probably good to do. So if fasting is something that you are interested in, you probably will find yourself naturally wanting to decrease meal frequency. Be sure to still get adequate calories though, so the 2,200 calories over one or two meals instead of over three.

(Chris Kornelsen) #15

So I’m 210 down from 260. I’d say my lean mass us between 180 and 190. I’m gonna guess 3000 calories is probably my goal for maintenance? But that seems like alot of protein and fat hah

(Chris Kornelsen) #16

Maybe I’ll try to cut dairy for the last 2 weeks I’d my carnivore. I’m also a tiny but afraid kd gout as my joints seem to be hurting a bit especially my rjght thumb. But that could be just from work or something

(Katie) #17

Painful joints can be a sign of an autoimmune response. Have you increased consumption of anything since starting carnivore?

Something to look into is oxylate dumping. I do not know too much about it and if it causes joint pain.

(Katie) #18

Have you tried a macrocalculator?

(Chris Kornelsen) #19

I have increases meat obviously haha. Also creamer cuz I have more coffee