New and a bit confused

(kilfli) #1

Hi there, I’ve been quietly reading posts in this forum for about a week now. Figured it would be easier to eliminate confusion by just asking my questions.

I’m sure it’s not without notice for most who change their eating habits to keto that there is so much information on the internet about how to do it, count calories, don’t count calories, eat this much protein and this much fat, then on another site/calculator all of this numbers are different.

Just like most people I want to lose weight. Ideally I’d like to lose 20, however, 10 is my main goal. I’ve used MFP for years and find it easier to stick with what I know. So I’ve been manually figuring out net carbs. For the week I’ve been doing this I have stayed around 20 g of carbs, one day it was 25. Fortunately changing to this way of eating isn’t a huge stretch. I have never really drank anything other than water and coffee, my “bad” carbs came from brown rice and quinoa, beans, fruit, and a fav, Late July multigrain tortilla chips. Only on occasion I’d indulge in sweets (refined sugar) Over the last year I gained 10 pounds. I’m assuming this is because I dropped way back on running, and stopped paying attention to calories. We just got back from vacation and there was not a day I wasn’t feeling disgusted with how I let myself go. It’s self loathing that is my clue, it’s time to do something because complaining isn’t helping. So back to my questions…

Should I count calories because at this point I’m really hungry almost all day. I’m set at 1600, however I’ve been eating between 1600-1800 daily.

How much protein? I’ve read 1-1.5g/kg of lean weight, I’ve also read 1g/pound of lean weight. So I’ve got it set to 130g. But then I’ve read in some places that the focus should be x then eat fat until satiety. If I did that, I’d be way over my calories.

Next, energy, I’ve got none!!! I went out for a run, normal is 4-6 Miles. I was only able to run 1, and that was with difficulty. My legs felt like lead. When does that start to return?

Thanks in advance for your help. Under the cover of the internet I’ll give you my stats ( my doctor doesn’t even know my weight)

Female, 38
6’0” 180 lbs
Pant sz 8-10
Normally I exercise at least 4x per week.
I work 12 hour night shifts as a Neonatal Intensive Care RN as well as NICU transport RN. Some nights I’m sitting all night, some nights I don’t get to sit at all.
Also, I’ve grown five people inside my body. My last pregnancy in 2009 was twins.

Reassure a newbie?
(*Rusty* Instagram: @Rustyk61) #2

You have a lot in this post so forgive me if I don’t hit it all. First…you might want to just back off working out for a few weeks. I only say that because that’s what worked for me. You need to become adjusted to a Ketogenic way of eating. (Have you experienced the Keto flu yet?). Wait on your workout until your past that…at the very least. You will feel better! Trust me. Keto is not a quick fix for anything. It’s a lifestyle change. Most people that I know eat .8 - 1.0 grams of protein per kilo. So you’ll have to convert your weight to calculate. I struggle with too much protein. Next, try to eat as much fat as possible. It will help you become fat adapted quicker. That’s when your living off your fat stores. Lastly…stop counting calories. Eat fat till your satisfied. Focus on the fat!

(Pete A) #3

Have you used a keto calculator to help guide you?

(*Rusty* Instagram: @Rustyk61) #4

Most everyone has used that. It’s a good resource for beginners.

(kilfli) #5

This leaves me a bit more confused, because if you’re not counting calories then these macros seem arbitrary.

Thanks for the replies so far. Not counting sounds amazing, but after 20 years of staying within certain lines, I need some convincing. :blush:

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #6

The point is to avoid stimulating insulin production. Carbohydrate is the worst in that regard, so we advise keeping to less than 20 grams daily. Fat is the best, with almost no effect, and protein is in the middle. We can’t live without protein, so we have to have some, and that leaves fat to make up the balance of our calorie requirements. I have read 0.8 to 1.0 grams a day of protein per kilo of lean body mass (I suspect that someone slipped up and wrote pounds instead of kilos by mistake, and now it’s being perpetuated), more if you work out. You need enough to avoid losing muscle mass, but not so much as to trigger ammonia toxicity. But that’s quite a large range, so just think “moderate protein.”

Eat fat to satiety, and especially right now, don’t count calories. It’s not that calories aren’t important, but rather that your body will signal you when you have given it enough, and for a long-term way of eating, restricting calories is unpleasant. By keeping insulin low, you will allow your body to mobilize its stored fat, and research has shown that most people in the introductory stage of a well-formulated ketogenic diet automatically restrict themselves to around 1500 calories, the other 1000 coming from their body fat. As body fat diminishes, eating fat to satiety will automatically peg your caloric intake to the correct level.

Another benefit of eating fat to satiety is that it makes it possible to go for hours without eating. Since eating even a low-carb meal spikes insulin, being able to spend a large part of the day not eating gives your insulin plenty of time to subside, so that you can metabolize fat. Once you are fat-adapted, you are likely to feel amazing. But right now you’re in the early stage, so just relax, keep calm, and keto on! :bacon:

P.S.—If you decide to count macros by percentages, remember that it’s percentages of total calories, not total grams, so you have to convert: 4 calories/gram for protein and carbohydrate, 9 calories/gram of fat.

(kilfli) #7

If I ate to satiety I’d eat much more than 1500 calories. Are you saying once I am fat adapted that will occur, or that should be happening now?

(Valerie) #8

I do not have a ton to add except that if you had twins in 2009, then there is a chance you are still capable of childbearing- meaning, hormones still regularly fluctuate for you. There ARE some women who cannot do a true ketogenic diet bc it messes with their hormones too much. Instead they can do very low carb for 5 days (under 30), and then moderate carb for 2 (50ish). Some women need to always stay around 50. Some women can do 20 or less all the time and be great. Others only need to up carbs during PMS or “shark week” (when you menstruate).

Regardless, the first 1-3 weeks after starting keto is rough for a lot of people and I also encourage laying off on intense workouts until your body is acclimated to being in a ketogenic state. You will know when this is bc you will FEEL ready and able to work out.

But if you just can’t seem to ever beat the “keto flu” then you may need to play around with those macros again and increase your carbs. Women and keto can be difficult in the beginning and it can take a lot more work to find the right balance.

As a side note: I pay no attention to calories, only macros, and concentrate the most just on my carbs. I have four kids and two jobs and can’t stress myself out even more than I already am. I keep to right around 30 carbs every day, all month. This seems to be my magic number. It keeps me in ketosis but I can handle my hormones (better, actually).

And you sound VERY much like a nurse my third child had when she was in the NICU in 2011– a nurse had twins born not that long ago, giving her children #’s 4 & 5.

(kilfli) #9

Thank you so much for the advice. I really appreciate it. I have found atleast in the NICU that I work at, that there are many of us with multiples, and many who have had atleast one child of their own in the NICU. I’m a late bloomer. I decided to have children, then a career, I’ve only been a nurse since 2013.

My twins are boy/boy fraternal. I’m an identical twin too. Although I call mine cheaters, my last three children were conceived with IVF.

(Valerie) #10

I found that too— you NICU nurses and kids! Actually, my anesthesiologist with my first had ELEVEN children! But I was surprised how many of my children’s NICU nurses had multiples or more than two or three kids. But there was that one nurse with my third and your profile picture and descriptions and physical build all reminded me so much of her.

Three of my four children had NICU stints. Pregnancy was not good to me. My first and last almost killed me. So, now we are done!

The keto forum is very good and very helpful but I suggest taking everything with “a grain of salt.” Men in particular often say and assume things about keto that just don’t and won’t hold true for women. And much like virtually all of medicine, men are the most thoroughly tested in clinical studies with the low carb/no carb way of eating. And there are all types of keto-ers: some say they are “strict” or “true” keto— no sweetners, never “cheat,” etc. Others consider themselves “dirty” where the only thing they worry about is keeping the carb count low, no matter how it’s done.

I’m more of a “I do what makes my body feel the best.” My keto journey began two years ago when I was taking my A&P class to become a certified aromatherapist. Just learning more thoroughly and in-depth how the digestive system works really had me question our low fat, high carb diet plans- thinking of my dad and his diet plan following his double bypass my senior year of high school (1999) but his continued trouble with heart disease despite keeping to his diet and exercise. Thus began a series of books, one of my faves is The Big Fat Surprise by Nina Teicholz.

Anyway, began really researching keto specifically last summer, began last fall, quit when my two nephews and niece moved in with us while my sister was in hospital, and started again only about seven weeks ago.

Down about 10-11 lbs. 4”.

Valerie

(Jay AM) #11

What they are saying is, stop counting the calories.

I tracked for a bit but, I didn’t care about the calorie count and just tracked out of interest. My first 2 weeks I was eating 3k-4k calories a week, lost 10 lbs in water weight. My next 2 weeks I could barely eat 1k a day until I was too full and lost another 10ish lbs. I just listened to my body, dropped the carbs to 20g net, and added lots of fat. Restricting unnecessarily can stall weight loss though so, pay true attention to how you feel and if the scale causes obsessed thoughts, put it away for a few weeks or months or give it to a neighbor you don’t like.

The basic “rules” I go by and many others can agree with especially for beginners are:

*20g net carbs max (you might tolerate more but, starting out, 20g net carbs or less will get you into ketosis.)

*Moderate protein (1g-1.5g per kg of lean bodyweight is a good goal based on the 2 Dudes recommendations.)

*Fat to satiety (add fat to every meal and, if you are hungry, eat more fat. Don’t be afraid of fat. It is energy.)

*Do not restrict calories

*Drink plenty of water

*Get plenty of sodium and other electrolytes

(Karen) #12

Do you have a better one you like??

K

(*Rusty* Instagram: @Rustyk61) #13

No, I pretty much fly by the seat of my pants anymore. After a while ya kinda just get a feel for it. Just rely on the fat.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #14

You may not have to wait until you’re actually fat adapted for satiety to kick in. For me, it was around four weeks after I went fully keto, and I found myself having to put half my lunch in the fridge. Not sure whether I was really fat-adapted or not, but until that point my sugar-burning portion sizes were still the rule. I suspect that what happens is that the body needs to be assured of a steady supply of abundant energy before it starts reining in the appetite. (Restricting calories, interestingly enough, causes the body to hang on to its fat stores rather than mobilize them.) But since that day, I’ve been becoming more and more aware of just how satisfying a smaller-portion meal can be, and of how long I can go before actually becoming hungry again if I’m eating enough fat.

(Tina Emmons) #15

All of these calculators are still asking you to figure your “deficit” so isn’t that just confusing to a newbie? It’s counter to what I’m trying to do and kind of surprising. Curious how the old timers would use this.

(kilfli) #16

Thanks. I’m not much of a scale girl. I rarely weigh. I go by how my clothes fit. They are getting tight, so it’s time to do something. I appreciate your advice!!!

(Pete A) #17

The macro calculators are a guide, because you are aaking and considering how many calories, protein, fat etc. I use a calculator simply to compare what it says to the reality of what I consume!

(Candy Lind) #18

I am a metabolically deranged 63-yo woman who’s yo-yo dieted my entire life. If I count calories, I can’t eat much more than 1100 or I start gaining (on SAD - Std. American Diet). I was just about at a halt trying to lose after starting keto, consuming 1200 calories. I decided to do what people preach on here - “eat more fat” and “trust the process.” Twice I increased my caloric intake (by adding fat), & twice the scales took a nose-dive. I am currently plateaued again but I’m still seeing other NSV changes, so at this point I’m just KCKO (that’s a link to our Acronyms Wiki, which I’m sure you’ll Appreciate).

What @PaulL said is crucial for the vast majority of us on this forum - there is an “insulin barricade” between your energy level & your stored fat, and you must eat until you are satiated in order to overcome that barricade. For most, insulin resistance improves as you continue in this WoE, and IF & EF are good additions to this end after you become fat-adapted (bet you are glad I mentioned that Wiki now! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: ).

To sum up, very low carb, moderate protein, fat to satiety (hmm, did someone say that already?? :smiling_imp: ) - and bump up your salt intake big-time. Start out around 4 grams as a goal. TRUST the process - your body may have things to heal before it starts emptying your fat cells. It knows what’s best!