Never Binge Again? UPDATE August 27, 2017

#1

Hi All,
Has anyone read "Never Binge Again" by Glenn Livingston?

I ask because I have struggled with emotional binge eating for, oh… about 35 years. But at my age, it absolutely must stop, for health reasons.

I’ve been low-carb off and on for about 7 years, but Keto since January 2017. Keto really helps to control cravings, but I still have trouble with eating when I get overwhelmed, too tired, after family gatherings (I know… you don’t know WHAT I’m taking about, right?), and when anxiety ramps up which is usually due to work.

I really want to decide once and for all to only eat when I’m hungry. And I am appalled that I’m not able to do that one simple thing: eat only when I’m hungry.

I exercise, do breathing techniques, have enjoyable hobbies, quit coffee…

Anybody else have this issue? Anybody else read “Never Binge Again”? Thanks.

UPDATE 8/27/2017

Now I have been through 3 sessions with a new EMDR / EFT therapist. You can see what EMDR and EFT are about here http://www.emdr.com/what-is-emdr/ and here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_Freedom_Techniques . Of course, there’s lots more to them, but those are two starting places.

So far, what I am experiencing is an awareness of how tightly wound up I am! Like, my normal walking around mode is holding my entire core super super tight, as though someone were about to punch me in the stomach or as though I’m absolutely terrified. I hadn’t realized that!

Well, I knew enough to do some relaxation techniques and such, and I’ve made huge strides in relaxing my neck and shoulders over the years… but I hadn’t realized that this tension in my core was my default mode.

The sessions have been emotionally challenging. There’s a feeling like, “Oh no… am I really going to do this?” It’s kind of like standing on a diving board and knowing that I’m going to have to step away from solid footing. A little feeling of dread. Not horrible or anything. But wow. Who knew I was so uptight in my body and emotions? I sure didn’t. I bet my friends would tell you that they think I’m relaxed and easy going.

The therapist talks a lot about keeping all parts of my brain communicating. So, like, when one part (I forget all the names right now) starts panicking and wanting to shut down, the goal is to keep all the parts calm enough and present enough to keep talking. That way, my frontal (thinking part) of my brain will still get a say in whether or not we (lol… “we” being all the parts of my brain) binge on carbage or don’t. If the frontal part gets shut down by the survival part, that’s when carb-carnage runs rampant.

I don’t know what’s causing the panic/tension yet, but that’s what I’ll be working on, I guess. I’m starting to get an inkling that maybe I don’t have to fight with myself over food choices as much as I need to calm myself down when I first start noticing tension building up.

Hope that makes sense. Love this forum! I learn tons all the time. Thanks for “listening”.

#2

I’ve haven’t read “Never Binge Again”. I just started reading “The Craving Mind” by Judson Brewer. I seem to have the same issue as you. I’m still having trouble with this satiety thing. Even when I’m in ketosis, I feel I can just eat and eat. I’m really trying to not make it about food. I think it’s something else because I don’t necessarily crave non-keto food, but boy, can I eat too much keto food.

#3

daon
July 3
I’ve haven’t read “Never Binge Again”. I just started reading “The Craving Mind” by Judson Brewer. I seem to have the same issue as you. I’m still having trouble with this satiety thing. Even when I’m in ketosis, I feel I can just eat and eat. I’m really trying to not make it about food. I think it’s something else because I don’t necessarily crave non-keto food, but boy, can I eat too much keto food.

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Interesting… when I’m stressed and feeling the need to eat to calm down, I never think of eating keto food - only carbs like cereal, chocolate, etc. I WISH I could crave keto food! :slight_smile:

Do you eat too much just because you enjoy it? Or do you eat when you are tense, tired, frustrated, etc? Or because the food just doesn’t satisfy you?

Isn’t it interesting how we all have our unique food challenges?

Thanks for your note!

(Michael McMurray) #4

I had a thought while reading your post. Do you think that probiotics could help? Making sure that your gut health is in check may be something to look into, there is a ton of science about it out there and a lot of it says that your gut can control your cravings, it will also make your immune system weaker if it is not proper.

Lots of things make it messed up too not just food, for instance if you have had a run of antibiotics at all recently that takes a long time to sort out.

Just a thought, hopefully a solution!

#5

I feel ya. I’ve only had one episode of this since starting keto a couple weeks ago, but more opportunities will present themselves, no doubt. I’m planning to employ simple mindfulness techniques (she says while very calm). I’m still working on what these techniques will be, specifically, and I’ll need to write them down and have them handy, like in my phone, because in the moment I won’t remember. Kelly Brogan in her book, “A Mind of Your Own,” recommends “The Untethered Soul” by Michael Singer. It goes deep into observing the self and not spiraling into the overwhelm that, for me, leads to emotional eating.

#6

Keto helps for sure because it does ramp down the physical cravings. However, it does not do so much for behaviour. It helps indirectly because you should see improvement to your mood but those habits… ingrained much?

What has helped me so much (still work in progress) is counselling. My counsellor uses a particular therapy called IFS (Internal Family Systems) which actually grew out of eating disorder therapy. Although I think it is most productive with a therapist, you can also use it as a self-led therapy. Check it out on google. The creator is Dick Schwartz and there are also some great books by Jay Earley. The trick is to work with (rather than against) your internal parts. When you binge, that is what is called a Firefighter part reacting to a trigger that has pushed you perilously close to exposing old wounds (trauma). The Firefighter leaps into action and diverts your attention away from the pain. The problem is that they often cause problems with their behaviour, however well intentioned they are - they are working on your behalf, to protect you from pain. The problems they cause as a consequence bring in the Managers who try and shut the Firefighter down. They do this preventatively by trying to “manage” your behaviour.

But sooner or later they will be overwhelmed by a trigger

and then the Firefighter leaps into action and takes over. Then the manager steps in as Critic to get you back on track. And the cycle perpetuates…

So how do you sort this all out? Well, you break the cycle by talking to and listening to the parts that are working for you. This is where IFS comes in. It roots out the trauma that lies buried deep within you by working with those parts that are protecting you from the pain. These parts are called Protectors because that is what they do. They are well-intentioned and are only trying to help but, over time, things get a little out of hand and it feels like they are doing anything but.

This is probably messing with your head a bit! I am happy to chat more about it if you want. I do suggest looking up the two authors on Amazon though - Dick Schwartz and Jay Earley.

#7

Thank you, Michael!

I do take probiotics and haven’t had antibiotics for over a decade. But, just yesterday I bought some sauerkraut, to try to help balance the chemistry in my digestive system.

I’ll just keep trying things until I figure it out. :slight_smile:

\Thanks again,

AE

(Meeping up the Science!) #8

It’s a decent book grounded in theory. The problem with books is they can’t replace social support.

The real reason people binge has little to do with biochemistry for 99% of people. It has everything to do with a combination of habit, emotion regulation, and behavior. In rare cases, it can be the result of an addiction, but in my clinical experience food addiction and binge eating are two separate phenomenon.

Food satiety has nothing to do with binge eating.

If you are craving certain foods and not hungry, your brain is telling you that something is out of whack. You feel poorly. You need to work on tolerating distress better, or finding ways to regulate your emotions. Your brain is calling out because you are in pain - you are suffering. It may have nothing to do with coffee, or probiotics, or food availability.

Often trauma or other occurrences growing up causes recurrent binge eating. The only way to treat the symptoms is to eliminate the cause. Therapy works because it addresses the cause. Much like giving a type 2 diabetic insulin, just worrying about the binge eating often goes nowhere. The roots of the issue have to be addressed for long-term success, or the weeds will keep growing above ground endlessly.

Counseling is invaluable for teaching skills and providing social support, and practice and diligence are also required. It’s no small task. However, if I, with my severe binge eating disorder that got me to be over 750 pounds was able to conquer it, the hope lies there for most other people.

Good luck :slight_smile:

#9

I didn’t read that book, but Brain Over Binge is the book that helped me most. It’s based on understanding the brain system that incites a binge and learning to deal with it. However, it took me quite a while to ‘master’ the techniques in the book and overcome my ‘lower brain.’

Knowing (reading the book) and doing (implementing the techniques effectively) are vastly different because habits over the years have actually created ‘pathways’ in the brain so that we tend to respond almost automatically to our triggers. It takes repeated refusals to binge to lessen the power of the brain, and it requires effort and patience.

But it’s totally worth the effort.

(Crow T. Robot) #10

Well, let’s not get crazy! lol

But, seriously, it might not seem like it would work, but you might try “zero carb”, which is actually zero plant food (though black coffee and spices are usually considered fine). There are no plants that are essential to our health, so you really aren’t giving anything up, and I find that cravings and loss of self-control that even keto couldn’t cure basically don’t exist since I went ZC at the beginning of June. YMMV, but it works a heckuva lot better for me than behavior modification. Try it for a month and see what happens. What have you got to lose?

(Mary Ann) #11

This is my experience too.

(Meeping up the Science!) #12

If it’s true binge eating, food choices may help, but in the end they do not limit the binges. Cravings don’t cause binges; they are just a symptom of the brain’s need for regulation.

Even on zero carb, which I’ve done for a very long time, I had issues with my disordered eating. Yeah, the cravings are gone, but the disordered eating remains long after they depart.

In the end, behavior always drives disordered eating.

Zero carb can actually trigger eating disorders, particularly binges, to exacerbate if the main causes have not been eliminated. Most disordered eating is caused by a loss of control or trauma that occurred in the past, and the disordered eating is done unconsciously to re-find control and equilibrium. Research has shown very limited diets sometimes trigger more disordered eating in a subset of people, depending on what clinical presentation they have.

(Doug) #13

PDX, great topic. I certainly have this issue - my life has been one big binge, shifting around a bit from one thing to another - including diet and running, for example - one can be compulsive about many things. The food and drink deal is massive; so much of existence and identity can be predicated around it. Easy to say that a change must be made - and I hear you when you say it absolutely must stop. I haven’t really faced this. I’m poor to fair at ketogenic eating, and pretty good at fasting, less than 3 months have already made a difference for the good. Yet the real long-term, permanent changes…

(carl) #14

I used to eat butter when I got hungry. Now I realize it’s the salt that satisfies me. Might I suggest the next time you have that craving feeling, reach for some sea salt. Put 1/8 tsp on your tongue and let it dissolve completely before chasing it with water. It works instantly for me. Craving gone.

#15

I believe it’s emotional eating…all emotions, not just one. I can’t seem to get “full”. That fullness trigger that tells me enough is enough isn’t working for me in or out of ketosis. :confused:

#16

Salt is a great suggestion! I started a 5 day fast today before we go on vacation next Monday to remove the unwanted bloating and puffiness I have acquired since (and on) my previous vacation at the end of June. I practice the salt on the tongue trick while fasting per Megan Ramos and it works wonders but I never thought of using it to cure a craving, like for macadamia nuts or a keto treat. Macadamia nuts are a HUGE problem for me! They are like Lay’s…I can’t eat just one…or one serving!

#17

Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply. I really appreciate it.

If therapy is the answer, then I may be out of . I’ve been in therapy off and on (mostly on) for about 30 years… psychologists, psychiatrists, emergency, eft, jungian, faith-based, The Power of Now, family history, alcohol treatment (I mastered alcohol thank goodness) etc etc.

And still, when I get stressed from work, the first thing I think of is Cereal and chocolate.

I’ll keep reading and learning. Next on the therapy agenda is finding a new EMDR/EFT therapist that can see me at times that will accommodate my work schedule.

Thank you again.

#18

This is really a lot of fascinating info, Daisy. I’m going to check out the authors you suggested and look deeper into IFS. Again, many thanks!!

#19

I will definitely try it! Thanks!

#20

Thank you, Doug. Being a human is just complicated, isn’t it? I move from thing to thing, responding in totally non-helpful ways to some non-specific angst. Hmmm.