Nail ridges

(Cat Onisko) #1

Hi everyone!

I’ve been on a ketogenic diet for 3 weeks now, and really happy with this way of eating! I’m not insulin resistant (my trigs/HDL ratio is optimal, which Phinney and Volek say is one of the best indicators of insulin resistance) but I am overweight (164 pounds on a 5 foot 2" frame), so for me, keto is primarily a weight loss and lifestyle overhaul to get me leaner and generally healthier (reduced inflammation, etc).

Everything is going well except I’ve just noticed that I have ridges in my nails that I’ve never had before!

I’m taking collagen powder in my coffee in the morning, so it can’t be a collagen problem. My worry is this is something to do with keto? Any ideas?

I don’t take a multi-vitamin and I’m definitely consuming much less of a variety of fruits and vegetables now. No fruits at all and maybe 1 or 2 servings per day of veg (mainly asparagus, broccoli and spinach).

Could this be down to something I’m now lacking in my diet? Vitamins or minerals perhaps?
Should I be taking a multi-vitamin on keto anyway?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Cat

(Edith) #2

Nails grow from the bottoms and they don’t grow that much in three weeks time. Any nutrient deficiency takes longer than that to show up in nails. (Unless you are seeing ridges in the new growth at the base of your nails.)

My suggestion is to make sure you are not cutting back too much on calories and not using “keto” processed foods. Make sure you are eating meat and vegetables. On your petite frame you want your nutrients to be as nutrient dense as possible. Fat does not contain a ton of vitamins although it does help us absorb some of them. Use real food and not fat bombs. Don’t worry about going over in protein.

(Cat Onisko) #3

That’s a very good point about nails not growing that fast! They are ridged from top to the bottom though.

I’m not eating any processed keto foods at all, and for anything ‘treaty’ it’s just a glass of organic red wine once or twice a week, or some whipped cream with Stevia and vanilla essence, although after reading lots of posts here over the weekend, I think I’ll drop the Stevia too as I don’t want to start getting a hunger for sweet things again!

So you wouldn’t recommend a multi-vit? Is there any harm in taking one anyway, do you think? I still can’t make up my mind whether they are a waste of money or they are actually useful just incase you aren’t getting enough vitamins for whatever reason.

Also very curious now as to what kind of deficiency can cause these nail ridges! I’m 34, so I don’t think it’s quite an ‘old age’ thing just yet, but I might be wrong!

Cat :slight_smile:

(Laurie) #4

Now you’ve made me look at my nails. On my left hand they’re ridged; on my right they’re smooth. I’m right handed, so I figure the ridges wear down somewhat with use. Are the nails on both your hands the same?

(Cat Onisko) #5

Haha, sorry!!

Yes, both pretty identical on both hands!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #6

Ridges in fingernails are often normal signs of ageing. Ridges can also be caused by many things, including stress. Changing diet could, I suppose, be such a stress, though as Edie has mentioned, three weeks is really too soon to see an effect. When I broke my arms four years ago, the stress from the accident and all the operations to repair the breaks caused some weird nail growth. It took months to show up, and then months to grow out.

Longitudinal ridges, such as you have, appear to have less serious possible causes than horizontal ridges. I find that my ridges come and go. Right now there is one nail with ridges on one hand, and there are two on the other. The rest of my nails are smooth. I have had ridges at other times of my life; they seem to come and go. My mother, a nurse, warned me not to try to file the ridges down. She said to just leave them alone, and I’d be fine.

This was the first link that popped up when I did an Internet search:

(Cat Onisko) #7

That’s absolutely fascinating that you had weird nail stuff going on after broken bones! Perhaps it is some form of stress then, although I have to say, I have a pretty chilled lifestyle. I suppose I’m being hyper aware of any bodily changes after switching to eating this way because it is so far away from how I previously used to eat. I just want to be absolutely sure it’s not having any kind of detrimental affects on me. Keto probably suits most people, but I don’t want to be that unlucky person that it doesn’t suit for whatever reason!
The ridges aren’t super obvious to be honest, it’s more when I look at them in the sunlight that I can see them.
I might do a spot of research on a good quality multi vitamin, just to be on the safe side (and put my mind at ease!).

Thank you!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #8

While it is common to assume that a later event was caused by an earlier one, this is not usually the case. In fact this assumption is a well-known logical fallacy called post hoc, propter hoc (“after this, therefore because of this”).

We get a lot of questions on these forums from people who notice some condition after starting keto, but most of these conditions are unrelated to the diet. Some of them arose by coincidence, some of them were pre-existing but unnoticed in the noise of pain and dysfunction caused by the standard American diet. Some effects are, of course, caused by keto, such as a return to metabolic health, or the shedding of excess stored fat.

You will notice that a ketogenic diet is not listed as one of the possible causes of longitudinal nail ridges in the link I posted. So I don’t think you have to worry that going keto caused them. However, you might want to check whether any of the listed possible causes applies in your case.

(Cat Onisko) #9

I think you’re absolutely right!
In fact, the possible deficiencies listed are all things that one should absolutely not be deficient in if following a keto diet!

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Deficiencies:
Protein: not a chance
Calcium: ie dairy, no way
Zinc: i take a daily supplement and also found in meat, so nope
Vitamin A: eggs and cheese, I eat plenty

So it is, perhaps coincidence. Coincidences do happen after all, by their very definition.
I think as I said before, I’m being hyper aware of any changes that may signal a lack of something in my new way of eating. I do suffer with health anxiety (which is highly ironic considering the lack of respect I used to treat my body in terms of eating), so I think that plays a huge part in looking out for anything that may mean I’m doing something ‘wrong’ and causing myself ‘harm’.

I’ve lost 4 pounds in 14 days which, for a little 5 foot 2 person such as myself, is pretty ok!
I feel much better, I go much longer without eating, and I am not starving myself as I have done for all my adult life.

It all just seems too good to be true, doesn’t it! :smiley:

Thank you for your advice and the anecdote, much appreciated!

(Edith) #10

Ha, ha, @PaulL included the link that I was just getting ready to post.

I would just like to add one thing to your discussion, which is something I went though. I understand your concern because when embarking on a ketogenic diet, we are going against everything we’ve been told by the “experts” over the years. It does take a bit to realize you truly are not killing yourself by eating this way.

(Cat Onisko) #11

Thank you! Yes, it’s very weird eating this way I have to say, even though I’ve always preferred fatty meat etc to sugar! Like I say, “too good to be true” is a little voice in my head I keep hearing!

(Jane) #12

I have this same problem and have always wondered what caused it. I used to have my nails done all the time so I figured the stuff they used maybe damaged them. This has been going on for several years. I am also going to be 65 here in a couple months so maybe it is just an age thing also.

(Karen) #13

I have longitudinal ridges on my nails. I file them down. I’m careful, but it makes them nice and smooth. They continue to grow up from the base with ridges. I’m 65 and I know that something to expect. Meh

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #14

Another addition to the List:

  • keto breath
  • keto BO
  • keto toe jam
  • keto belly button floss
  • keto hair loss
  • keto flu
  • keto finger nails
#15

You had them before, if you’ve ever ripped off a nail you know even when they grow quick… they take a long time to grow so you’ve had them for a while now and didn’t notice. There’s debate on whether that is insulin resistance or nutrient deficiencies, which I’m more likely to believe since I have them and my A1C has been in the 4’s for a long time now.

That makes it easy then, NOBODY gets all the nutrients they need without supplementation… NOBODY! Even if you were to eat all the right things, aside from the fact our food is screwed with and our veggies are grown in nutrient deficient soil you couldn’t possibly eat that much.

You’ve answered your own question already. Set up cronometer, track all your intake for a while and see first hand what you’re getting, and more importantly what you’re not getting. You’ll most likely be very surprised. Most peoples diets are lacking WAY more than they’d think they are.

(Bob M) #16

For me, the main negative is lower leg cramps and an inability to determine why they come when they do, and what to do to prevent them. I’ve tried salt, magnesium, potassium, and every combination of these, and still get lower leg cramps at times.

Did a 36 hour fast last week, and got a lower leg cramp in the morning at about 30 hours or so. Didn’t think I had to take in that much extra minerals for such a short fast, but maybe I do.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #17

As we’ve discussed elsewhere and I can’t recall just where, I’ve had foot/ankle/calf cramps since years before keto. By upping my electrolyte intake on keto, I’ve managed to reduce them significantly. I am also now able to stop progression, in most episodes, if I hit it soon enough by extending/stretching my legs and feet.

What is occurring during the past several months, however, is fewer cramps in feet/ankles/calves. The bad ones now occur primarily in the muscles in the insides of my thighs. They are generally deeper, more painful and less susceptible to ‘stretching’ out. I frequently have to let them just run their painful/crippling course for 5-10 minutes before petering out.

(Bob M) #18

I’ve also tried to up my electrolytes. In fact, I was listening to a podcast by Zack Bitter (he of the incredible endurance running), and he said that he gets less of a morning blood sugar spike by taking electrolytes in the morning. And the guy he had on also said taking more electrolytes at night can reduce/prevent getting up at night to go to the bathroom.

So, I may be testing this, though I’d need to buy some blood sugar strips.

I just wish there was a test we could take, rather than just randomly trying to increase everything.

(Gregory - You can teach an old dog new tricks.) #20

According to who? The same people who tell us to eat less fat and eat more grains and sugar?

I just don’t by the NDA thing… Humans thrived on a naturally sourced diet, thousands of years before the NDA bunch had a clue…

#21

Nope, never said that. Those people would probably argue that we do.

As a whole the RDA’s are happy with much less than people have been found to need, most people don’t have enough variety to get them all in as you’d need to eat crazy combinations of foods to achieve it, and even if you did, you’re eating stuff mostly grown in nutrient depleted soils and on the animal side animals that have severely lacking diets. Past that the over processing of even simple things, produce being frozen and thawed 25x before you get it, it being much older than you think it is when you buy it, the list goes on.

Have you ever had a nutrient profile done on yourself? Because I have, and for somebody that tracks and sees that I’m getting (optimal) amounts in, I still wasn’t even close.

There’s also the difference between being optimal and getting enough in to simply not have a problem, simply not having a problem isn’t enough. Surviving isn’t thriving.