My labs, not keto yet, already high LDL

#1

Hi there,

45 y/o male. 1,93, skinny fat/normal posture

I want to start ketovore because of an auto immune disorder. Despite eating very clean Mediterranean diet and being active i already have high LDL. Don’t know what i can do better other than carnivore. Thinking about going carnivore, but with my labs i might be safer with statines? I have two kids so i don’t wanna die.
The ref ranges are Dutch ranges.

LDL 4,5. (0-2,5)
HDL 1,5. > 0,9
TG 0,6. (0,5 - 2,1)
Apo B-100. 1,25. (0,49 - 1,73)
Apo A1 1,62. (0,95 - 1,86)
Ratio B/A1. 0,77. (0,4 - 1,20)
Ratio A1/B (0,4 - 1,20)

Thanx

(Bob M) #2

If you’re relatively lean and eating mainly fat, you’re most likely going to raise your LDL. That’s because LDL has many functions, one of which is to shuttle energy in the form of fat around. I THINK your HDL / Trig ratio looks good, but the ratio is different for those units, and I don’t know the range. Paul might chip in with that info.

Can you get a coronary arterial calcification scan done?

(KM) #3

Welcome to the forums! I’m a bit fuzzy on your numbers but I’m sure others will chime in with some helpful analysis. I have no kids but I don’t want to die either, and I’ve never felt healthier than as a ketovore.

Keto-cholesterol theories can be a leap of faith if you’re devoted to the “marketing science” currently pressuring us to avoid certain foods; we sometimes refer to ‘arterycloggingsaturatedfat’ because it’s such a common term out there STILL being thrown around, and also such nonsense.

There’s a lot to learn here, great resources and sincerely nice people, and I hope you decide to give keto/carnivore diet a try!

#4

Thanx the ratio is 0,913.

(Bob M) #5

That’s good.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #6

Your ratio of triglycerides to HDL is 0.4, so your cardiovascular risk is minimal, regardless of what your LDL is doing. Any ratio of 0.9 or less indicates minimal risk (you would want 2.0 or less in American units). If you were to have an NMR analysis of your LDL done, it would be guaranteed to to show the healthy Pattern A. Also, given how low your ratio is, I suspect that you are probably not very insulin-resistant. You are doing fine.

Another matter is that 4.5 is not that high for LDL. There are people, called lean-mass hyper-responders, who go on a ketogenic diet, lose a lot of fat, and find that their LDL goes to nearly twice what you are showing. They seem to be perfectly fine, and there is a study being conducted to determine whether their high LDL is or is not a risk.

And lastly, don’t even look at your lipid numbers again until you have been eating a ketogenic diet for at least six months. Tests done in the meantime will only alarm your doctor prematurely. Most people are not lean-mass hyper-responders, and their LDL settles at a level that their physician is comfortable with. It’s far too soon to know how your body is going to respond.

As for your question about statins, I am prejudiced against them, but I can reasonably tell you that it’s far too soon in the process for a decision to be made about that. Wait till you’ve been eating keto or carnivore for at least six months, then we can discuss the matter. Taking a statin will indeed lower your LDL, but the question is, at what cost? There are some serious side effects that affect a lot of people. And also, there are studies out there showing that people with low LDL develop health problems that you may want to avoid. Cholesterol is part of the walls of every cell in your body; it makes up a considerable portion of your brain; it is essential to the transmission of nerve impulses; and it plays a vital role in the human immune system. So messing with it is not something to be undertaken lightly.

Now, the question of how much a ketogenic diet will help your autoimmune condition is a very different one. There are no guarantees, but it might very well be of some use. At the very least, you may experience a palliative effect, but complete reversal is definitely not guaranteed, though we can hope.

#7

Hi Paul, Thanx for taking the time to give a so detailed answer. You and @ctviggen are very helpful. As you say there are a lot of sincerely people in this scene.

Are you sure my ratio is ,4? I transfered it to U.S. numbers
HDL: mmol/L to mg/dL: multiply by (x) 39
TG: mmol/L to mg/dL: multiply by (x) 89

TG ,6x89=53,4
HDL 1,5x39=58,5

TG/HDL 53,4/58,5= 0,913

Or am i wrong?

(Bob M) #8

You are, unfortunately, wrong. I know it makes no sense (at least to me), as it’s just a ratio, which means it’s A/B, and the units shouldn’t matter. But for some reason, they do. This outlines the reference values for you:

image

As for @PaulL’s discussion above, while it’s always good, I have one minor quibble. They did a study:

See this figure:

image

What this figure shows is that the lower BMI you have, the higher LDL increase you will likely get if you go on a carb-restricted diet. In fact, the highest change in LDL is found in the leanest (lowest BMI), healthiest (as per lowest trigs/HDL ratio) people.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #9

Firstly, 0.6 / 1.5 = 0.4, well under 0.9.

Your triglycerides would be 0.6 x 88.5740 = 53.14 in U.S. units. Your HDL would be 1.5 x 36.6698 = 55 ( good number).

And 53.14 / 55 = 0.97, which is likewise, well under 2.0.

Note that the conversion factors from mmol/L to mg/dL are different for HDL and for triglycerides. This is why the upper limits of the healthy range differ according to the units. A millimole is a specific number of molecules, whereas a milligram is a specific mass of a substance. Hence, the conversion is complicated, and a different factor must be used for each molecule.

(Bob M) #10

That makes sense, thank you.

Though it makes me wonder why the US is always the oddball. Pretty much everyone else uses different units, doesn’t refrigerate their eggs,…

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #11

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

(Robin) #12

I remember when they told us students that the US would soon convert to metric to align with the rest of the world. I didn’t hear any kids complain, but a lot of teachers were furious! :thinking:

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #13

Oddball! you? Really? … Nah, we walk everywhere and if we do drive, we do it on the LEFT hand side of the road :joy:

(Mike W.) #14

Probably because I just read an article about a meteor the size of “84 orcas”! We’ll use LITERALLY anything but the Metric system :rofl:

(Peter - Don't Fear the Fat ) #15

Here’s the beauty of metric … 1 litre of water weighs 1kg … if you know the volume of something you know its weight automatically, or if you know the weight you know how many kg it is. Neat ah?

#16

Do you know if that’s truly a BMI (meaning assumption of fat) or a literal mass thing? I’m proudly obese per my BMI, but my BF% is in the 10’s. Lately my cholesterol is kinda too low. My doc (who at one point told me “she’s stick statins down my face if I didn’t fix it” (Love that lady!) now telling me to get it up a little LOL! Not like I’m eating low fat!

#17

First I’d say don’t worry about it, second, skinny fat meaning the wrong but typical use of that term meaning just some gut? Or actually low bodyfat but a big gut despite that (viceral fat), that can actually be bad, but assuming it’s not that, don’t overthing it.

I’d track what you eat, we’re told what we eat doesn’t have a huge impact, but for me and my wife it had a huge one.

May want to paste these in so more people will understand it. Numbers aren’t really that bad at all man.

HDL: 58
LDL: 174
Trigs: 56

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #18

And a pint’s a pound, the world around.

I think they must have arranged it that way on purpose.

(Michael) #19

I am surprised no one has noted that your ldl is a proxy for ApoB100, which for you is in the normal range and is discordant with ldl. No doctor, keto nor standard should consider a normal ApoB100 as at risk no matter the LDL. You sir are fortunate enough to be deemed safe in any community or group that understands lipids.