My keto struggles - introduction post


(Pennie Malone) #21

According to the keto calculator the podcast recommends, I should be on 1500 cal per day made up of: 30g Carbs, 120g Fat and 83g of protein. Previously I’ve tried 20g but I found I became ridiculously constipated (didn’t go for 12 days). By increasing my carbs to 30g and having more vegetables things are stable although I rarely reach the 30g it gives me a bit more flexibility

Most days I meet my protein intake give or take a couple of grams.

The last 7 days my calories have been:
724
1273
941
844
1021
821
1301

I’m 31, 168cm, 94kg and 30% body fat. I do very little activity and poly cystic ovaries is my only other major condition. My bloods are pretty much textbook except for a low vitamin d and folic acid so I take daily supplements for those.


#22

These statements raise red flags for me that this is less of a “reduced appetite on keto” issue and more of a psychological issue relating to your relationship with food. Have you thought about getting professional help regarding this?


(Pennie Malone) #23

I’ve been looking the last few days for professional 1 to 1 help but finding it difficult to find someone who understands keto but also an eating disorder specialist.

I’m going to keep searching though, see if I can find anyone that fits the bill and isn’t a few hundred € a month. If I’m griping about spending €4 on 2 lamb chops, I’m not going to be able to afford most of the options I’ve found so far


#24

Ah, yes. Is it hard to find any kind of professional working in healthcare that understands keto. You might need to just find one that just at least understands eating disorders.

They can indeed be expensive, hopefully you find a cheaper (but still effective) option.


#25

I didn’t read all the comments are usual, it’s just too much.

Well, I must say I can relate to almost everything. But I did on/off keto. I went keto zillion times and got off zillion times. It was nice but not enough and now I do a carnivore month and we will see the future.
On carnivore, I managed to go below 20g net carbs (unlike on all my keto days, I think) and maybe it’s the I have some of your problems while I hadn’t them on keto. But maybe not. And as I solved most of them or didn’t have some others, I write about them now, maybe it helps something.

  1. I never was picky but as time passed… Yep. I am a hedonist so I don’t eat food I don’t like (only if I am starving and have no options. I mean, I am very hungry. A longer fast is better than eating stuff I really have problems with). I wouldn’t touch avocado, always disliked mayo (but I can make my own if I want: 1 egg yolk, 5-10g tasty lard from a farm, mustard. it’s probably not mayo but it’s almost too fatty already)… Avoided almost all green vegetables (not green peas :))… And until a year ago, I didn’t eat meat (on keto. off keto a few times a year happened, insignificant). Yeah, I had a bigger carb allowance and it wasn’t hard but it’s restricted too. Especially because…

  2. I did my somewhat restricted vegetarian keto on a budget and I do my carnivore trials on a budget too. I obviously didn’t use the insanely expensive almond flour (it’s not even so great IMO. maybe useful, IDK but I only pay this much for some super tasty item that is great in tiny amounts) and while I do use butter, I do it sparingly. Like, 10g a week. But usually less. I love good lard and it’s way cheaper and tastier and if it’s not a dessert, lard should do a better job if you ask me. But I avoid added fats as much as I can so the amount is very tiny. I had coconut oil on vegetarian keto, it’s not expensive either.
    My old keto was my cheapest woe ever - until I tried carnivore, it is even better. I can’t afford beef or not much but I don’t like beef anyway… I eat way less than on my original keto, carbs made me hungry and I had way more whims, desires… It was only tricky, well, quite impossible a bit longer term while I only accepted farm or home-raised meat (the kind I couldn’t afford). I relaxed these now and wow, some pretty nice meat is dirt cheap! Why poor people don’t eat lots of chicken? (I get super bored of it so I rarely eat it too. I went vegetarian when I was forced eating chicken every Sunday as a kid. I loved vegetables more anyway. But it might not happen if I got pork and salmon and beef… Variety is important!) Now I have turkey and some pork. I can’t afford tuna so it’s useful I dislike tuna (and poor animals aren’t enough numerous anyway). Sometimes a tiny taste is good for variety but that’s it.
    I actually find choosiness very useful for keto and simplicity to some extent. I don’t get why people has a problem with not liking vegetables. Those are so carby, it’s such a relief I avoid them now, it made a huge impact to my carb intake… But I understand it’s not the same for everyone. I was a HUGE veggie lover so vegetables brought 10 times more carbs than my important daily fruits (banana and berries). It’s such a relief not needing them… Or in super tiny amounts, that’s nice.
    Cooking is the same for me: I LOVE if I have only a few things to use, it makes the vast possibilities a bit less intimidating. I like challenges and being forced to be creative. Maybe you don’t… And it may took a lot of time to figure out how to eat, yeah, that’s a downside, maybe.
    You surely can eat zillion things even if you don’t eat many food groups, can’t afford the expensive ones and you are choosy… Find them. I don’t even have the option of forcing down things I dislike, well, one or two times I used some subtle force but I still must not dislike the stuff too much, it’s still a creative thing. Like, I can dislike even my main staple, eggs. But I still can eat them in certain forms. As many people realized, I did it too, drinking calories is way easier. And I almost always can eat certain items, desserts so it was more like for keto… But reinforcing my decades old “dessert in the end of every meal” habit might have been not the greatest idea. But I did what I could. Now I can eat sausage, almost any time. Or sour cream or cream but I should be careful with the sugar in it. Some people just drink some heavy cream and voila, zillion calories. That’s not my style, fortunately but they still can help. It’s useful if some kind of fats don’t satiate you when you have problems with eating enough…

  3. You don’t need to wait for hunger or appetite (it’s 2 very different and not really correlated things. appetite is my desire, hunger is well, hunger, my body wants food using those hunger signs. I have “need for fuel” feeling too, very easily without hunger and appetite. I usually eat when I have that).
    I eat even when satiated sometimes though that’s usually just tasting something, it was freshly made turkey liver now and I need the calories. Eating multiple times help too with calories though it’s not convenient, I dislike that. But if I must, I eat 5 times. I can’t starve… That’s not healthy or hedonistic.

If you have cravings due to low calorie, can’t you grab some super dense stuff? Like my beloved sausage. It’s usually hard to want carbs when you are stuffed with something like that though I can imagine that too but then the case isn’t mere lack of food.

  1. I am a very serious food addict, I mean the topic itself. Even if I can’t imagine eating at the moment, it’s nice to think and read about food… I can’t offer any advice here as I am in the middle of it myself. But I am sure it will help me finding an even more interesting, joyful and useful hobby will help (I do have such ones but I should focus on them more, immerse myself into drawing, for example. I went off this forum for DAYS, it’s a huge win in my life). I like OMAD and carnivore because at least I think less about what I will eat myself when I am perfectly satiated for a long time. It’s still much but less. I would be doomed if I had to eat all day! Even my occasional 5 meals is IF.

Food is fuel but it’s much, much more for most of us. And it’s fine. I accepted I am a huge hedonist so I never will eat stuff I dislike or super rarely and in insignificant amount. So I eat what I like (or in the worst case, what I can endure somehow. what I least dislike. but it should be extremely rare). True, it’s hard sometimes but there are always options…! Even with very very limited ingredient options. I can make many very different things from eggs. Only eggs. And I can add something and the varieties are endless. Right now, I am very bored of boiled eggs. So I eat them in different forms, piece of cake (sometimes literally but I ate so much cake on keto that I got bored of them in general. but I still like pancake and sponge cake. they aren’t sweet or very similar to other people’s as you know, carnivore but they are still good).

And I need my eggs for different purposes. Fatty meat is extremely satiating to me, I would have more serious undereating problems depending on it too much, probably. And it would be boring too. And you can pry my precious eggs from my dead, cold hands anyway. I am just not into them all the time but it’s fine, I have so much more options! Various dairy (just not too much lactose), various meats, even spices! You do only keto so you have much, much more.

Your numbers, OMG! I can’t even imagine. Do you get full with 200 kcal or do you have too few meals for your super tiny portions? Poor soul, EAT more somehow. Why is it eating so hard for people? And I tend to undereat myself sometimes but that’s 1300 kcal… And not every day… My body sometimes realizes it wants more calories so it gets its calories.

What if you raise your protein? I am no good with a high fat/protein ratio, it doesn’t come naturally to me… I almost always eat somewhat high-protein as I can’t eat any other way and it feels nice. It works well for many of us. Maybe it would be better if it comes to your food options too… As far as I love the mentioned and quite fatty sausage, it’s just some bites, I need a lower fat content in my diet. I eat it with less fatty stuff. I am sure many people eat way less fatty than me, even on keto. I love fat, after all and the vast majority of my protein sources are quite fatty. Just not fatty enough to give me a realistic chance of eating way more fat that protein. I should do something about it when I want to maintain or bulk on an active lifestyle but 83g is so little, it’s very probable you can raise that.


(Laurie) #26

I knew a man who said something similar: “I’m not interested in food. I wish I could just take a pill to get my nutrients every day.” He ate enough, and I don’t think he had an eating disorder. Just not crazy about food, didn’t use food as entertainment, etc.


(KCKO, KCFO) #27

Those are low daily counts, up your fats and proteins. You can add more oil/butter etc to dressings for your salad. Make sure you get really fat meat cuts, they are general less expensive just about anywhere.

It would be good if you stopped the calorie counting and just ate under 20 grams of carb, as much protein as you want and some fat to satiety.


(Susan) #28

Welcome to the forum, Pennie Malone =).

I will be here to encourage you along --you have already received heaps of great advice above from many amazing people so I just wanted to wish you the best and welcome you here.

I really love @islandlight Laurie’s long post above addressing all your points --you can do this and joining the forum for support I think is a great help! It certainly has been for me --we have a really fantastic support team here.


(Pennie Malone) #29

Thank you to everyone for your amazing replies. I was in such an awful place the last couple of days and the wise words from you all made me cry ever so hard but put me back to a place where I can move forward. I’ve not been hit by such an emotional response to being in ketosis before. A huge shock I wasn’t prepared for and didn’t react well to it.

My Plan:

  • I’m going to go off keto for a few days. Get my head back on track. I’ll eat well enough (no doughnuts) but not strictly low carb
  • I’m going to write out a recipe book of recipes that I know I will eat from multiple different sources so I have resource of go to foods I will eat that I can even give to my partner and ask “cook this for us” and I don’t even have to worry about the stress of cooking or having to convert a recipe to keto
  • While I have a few days not on keto, I’m going to have a taste of all the foods I have been dreaming about. So far most of the things I’ve been craving I didn’t actually like once I tried eating them. I’ve made a note of them and how I felt eating them to remind myself that they’re actually a bit rubbish and not worth the time thinking about them. Foods I did still enjoy, I’ll also take note of so I could have a little bit here and there once completely on the level with keto and know that there will be enjoyment
  • I’m going to find a therapist to talk through my eating disorder. I’m not sure what eating disorder I have but there is one there. It’s been there for at least 17 years but rears its head when I try to control what I eat (trying to be low calorie, being vegetarian, keto, etc). It’s going to be expensive but I think its what I need
  • I’m going to copy some of these replies and print them off. Put them on my desk for when I’m having a bit of a wobble and need an esteem boost
  • Final part of the plan is, I’m going to buy a computer game I’ve been wanting for a couple of years. I’m going to absorb myself completely in that for as long as I want to (giving time for breaks for eye strain of course). Hopefully this will completely focus my mind on anything but being in keto and food. Because of my long term illness, I can’t work so I have the time to be able to do this. My side hobby/pocket money job is just that, I don’t need to do it, so I can put the paintbrushes down (I paint watercolours) and allow myself to be absorbed into the world of Elder Scrolls Online

So I’m going to listen to some of my favourite 2 Keto Dude’s episodes. The Cholesterol and Cancer ones really motivate me. While listening to these I’m going to go through my saved recipes and add them all onto one word document sorting into meal type. Once I’ve done that time to jump up on the Keto horse, install my game and continue as if I hadn’t had this little blip

Thank you again everyone. You’ve all be so fantastic at helping me put my thoughts and problems together to a manageable way that I can work with

Pennie


(Polly) #30

Wishing you the very best of luck with getting your beans in a row and your jump back on to the keto horse.


(Pennie Malone) #31

Getting there. It’s taking longer than I thought to write up all the recipes that take my fancy. I’m also waiting on an ninja foodi to be delivered so I’ll have access to an air fryer and slow cooker.

What I’ve really noticed going back to normal eating this time, is that I’m still not hungry or eating much at all. I’m pretty sure this is how I was eating before keto this time too. So this lack of eating has been happening for a long time and is a big obstacle for me to overcome.

My plan on how to overcome it is to meal plan. 2 meals a day and a fat drink and maybe a keto biscuit (cookie) if I want to for breakfast. My housemate is also going to eat what I eat (with no keto snacks if he fancies as he doesn’t like the idea of restricting at this stage). So I’ll/we’ll be cooking for more than 1.

My other plan when I get back into it, is I’m really going to eliminate all carbs, even some of the incidental ones to begin with. Really introduce my mouth and stomach to fat. I don’t love veggies but tolerate them. But during this first period I’m not going to have them. I’m going to create a pretend stock issue with vegetables so I’m creating a craving for something I can’t have yet. So when I’m going to introduce them back again it’ll be a treat. Trick myself into food scarcity

I’ll post soon


(Laurie) #32

Sounds like a good plan. Best of luck with it!

I stopped eating vegetables a few months ago. For me they just complicate things, and I get confused and tempted to stray.


(Susan) #33

I wish you all the best in achieving all those well thought out objectives and goals and getting back on track!


(Pennie Malone) #34

I haven’t quite got to sorting a meal plan out yet but I’m back eating keto as of 4 days ago

Mostly doing well calorie wise so long as I eat at least 2 meals and 1 snack each day

However the last two days I’ve been in bed, sleeping and resting, most of the day and only coming out of my cave around dinner time. I’ve just stuffed myself with a as much roast chicken and as I could manage (230g of leg and half the skin of the whole bird while it was fresh and crispy) and I’m stuffed. But that’s just 480 cal or 23g fat.

Despite being asleep all day, I’m ready to crash back into bed in an hour or so and I know I won’t be able to face eating any more before then so it’ll be another day of well below ideal intake

I’ve got to find some food, small in volume that is high in fat that I can bring myself to eat. I wish fat bombs made of coconut oil didn’t melt so readily in the mouth


(Laurie) #35

I had trouble eating “enough” for the first few months. Now I’m eating more. You will figure it out.


(Pennie Malone) #36

I’m glad it improves over time as you get the hang of things


(Pennie Malone) #37

I found some keto goodies (definitely in the treat section) in the fridge I forgot about.

Keto chocolate cake and a chocolate moouse made with whipping cream and avocado. I just had nearly 1000 calories in 1 bowl. I felt a bit sick before but now I feel even more blegh but a happy gluttonous blegh

Need to amend my recipe of the cake though as it 17g of net carbs :confused: need to find a resource for darker dark chocolate as 74% has too much sugar in it


#38

I have quite low-carb cakes, my desserts were my lowest-carb dishes before carnivore.
What about home made chocolate? Very easy and you put whatever you want into it. Mine isn’t true chocolate as it has no cocoa butter (I tried it once and it didn’t get better, just more expensive, I wonder if there are different cocoa butters since then…) but it’s still great for a cake.
Or buy 90% chocolate if you like. Or use an eggy or buttery cream, there are options.

I had to ban fat bombs when I learned to make them, I never lost fat on keto without them but with those, I easily overate. I didn’t remember they melted too easily, I loved their crunchiness when I took them out of the freezer… Well, they had more nuts than coconut fat, that surely helped…

Drinking calories is usually easier too…

I personally have some very fatty protein I can eat almost any time in my natural eating window… I love fatty pork but sour cream and whipped cream too… The latter ones being soft and nice are too easy to eat galore if you ask me.
But I know that nothing helps if one has truly super low appetite… Maybe it will change, it should, I guess. But I always tended to eat too much and not too little so I don’t know these things. It’s quite individual I imagine but a normal working body should get hungry and demand food. In the beginning it may be confused though, even I experienced this when I did something drastic (my keto wasn’t that but I often couldn’t eat enough when I was a newbie at OMAD or carnivore. some times later it got sorted out, unfortunately as I ate a bit too much again…).


(Bacon by any other name would taste just as great.) #39

What about unsweetened chocolate with a non-sugar sweetener added to taste?


(Edith) #40

I recently listened to a podcast with a nutritionist named Mary Ruddick who was being interviewed. At one point she mentioned lack of appetite and eating disorders can be caused by zinc deficiency.

I’ve included the podcasts (it was a two parter.) I don’t remember which one mentioned the eating disorders. If I have a chance I’ll try to figure it out, but you maybe enjoy listening through both anyway. They are very interesting. She also happens to be in Greece at the time of the interviews. :grinning:

Edit: I also wanted to add that my hunger signals are different on keto than previously. I may feel a headache coming on, or a little sick to my stomach. Sometimes I realize I’m hungry not because I feel hungry, but because I’m suddenly thinking about food and can’t think of something else. Maybe you’re not recognizing your new hunger signals.