More lies to keep people confused

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science
(Leslie) #1

Unbelievable article in a ‘reputable journal’.

(Maha) #2

Unfortunately, we can’t see the study, how many mice, type of mice, types of fats, how much, how the study was carried out, etc. I wanted to see who sponsored this study because I’m now very suspicious of claims like this. Most importantly, these are mice, not humans, despite us being similar (I guess, for study purposes). I still don’t buy their argument. I guess my question to studies like this is, if studies show that carbs cause weight gain in some, and supposedly fat does too per this study, what are we supposed to eat?

(Brian) #3

Only one thing left, protein. Dr. Ted would like that idea. :wink:

(Maha) #4

But doesn’t too much protein get stored as fat too?

Studies like these irritate me, because they don’t really offer much in the way of actionable solutions that make sense. You can’t cut out fat, and the study doesn’t say if you eat 5 lbs a day you’ll gain weight, but 2 lbs is fine and necessary to the body. It just says fat makes you fat. This study is a disservice - sugar and carbs should be demonized, not fat. Once we have the sugar and carbs eliminated as a culprit, then if dietary health issues persist, then look at other stuff.

Anyway, one day protein will be demonized, is my guess. But not that beloved white crystal. Too much money to be made.

(Brian) #5

Hope my comment wasn’t taken too seriously… the reason for the :wink: (winky face)

Yes, articles like that can be frustrating because you’re right, they leave you nowhere to go.

(Maha) #6

Sorry, I had my serious 'tude on today. I’ve since lightened up :-).

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #7

Here’s the abstract: Dietary Fat, but Not Protein or Carbohydrate, Regulates Energy Intake and Causes Adiposity in Mice

It sounds like an interesting study, but I don’t have a subscription to Elsevier to see the details. The study is apparently still in the editing process and hasn’t appeared in print yet.

I would like to see the study replicated in rats. I suspect the results might be rather different.

(Linda) #8

Well, most of are pretty sure this study can’t be replicated in human beings.

(Leslie) #9

Rats, mice, what’s the difference? Sarcasm not withstanding, neither are humans.
I would only be interested in a study conducted on human beings!
I think that any research data extrapolated from rodents is speculative at best

I appreciate your scientific mind and the really analytical method you have with observation of analysis, but I just don’t see how any study conducted on animals is truly transferable to humans

I hope I’m not offensive in my delivery
I do appreciate you
KCKO

(Raj Seth) #10

They don’t irritate me. I just KCKO KCFO & FUBAR to them :grinning::grinning:

#11

Since @PaulL hasn’t shown up yet to defend himself :slightly_smiling_face:…

I happen to know from another conversation we had that he knows much more than the average guy about rat nutrition, so I’m guessing he was sort of wondering out loud due to his personal interest. He doesn’t seem easily offended anyway. And your point about the study is totally valid.

(Leslie) #12

Thank you

I get so aggravated with this ‘science’! It really makes me angry that ‘experts’ can tell humans how to live biased on animal experiments. Show me human science. I will accept nothing less
I am not a mouse, nor a rat

I think that’s why this stuff pops up on my Google page, because they know I cannot resist and I will share it! They don’t see that the reason I share it is to rip it to shreds, but hey, whatever
I’m still the one clicking on their crap

Oh wait, I forgot to keep calm and keto on
I think I will go eat

(Bunny) #13

"Carbohydrates including up to 30% of calories coming from sugar had no effect. Combining sugar with fat had no more impact than fat alone. …” <== NOT Ketogenic (burning ketones), mice by their very inherent biological nature are inclined to gain fat from eating fat at alarming rates of speed[1]? There was no evidence that low protein (down to 5%) stimulated greater intake, suggesting there is no protein target. These effects of dietary fat seemed to be because uniquely fat in the diet stimulated the reward centres in the brain, stimulating greater intake.” :+1:

Note:
[1]Professor John Speakman, who led the study, said: "The result of this enormous study was unequivocal – the only thing that made the mice get fat was eating more fat in their diets.

“A clear limitation of this study is that it is based on mice rather than humans. However, mice have lots of similarities to humans in their physiology and metabolism, and we are never going to do studies where the diets of humans are controlled in the same way for such long periods. So the evidence it provides is a good clue to what the effects of different diets are likely to be in humans.” <=== Like Duh?

Question for Professor John Speakman? Why would you waste valuable research time on this kind of stupidness that bypasses the threshold of sensible logic? Over-kill does not even describe this kind of pseudo-platonic logic?

(Edith) #14

I think the lesson learned here is to not feed your mice unlimited fat.

If I ever get a pet mouse, I will be grateful this study was conducted. :mouse2:

(Omar) #15

Lol

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #16

One reason I’d be interested in a rat study is that rats tend to get obese from too much protein in the diet, not so much from the fat content. (I know this because vets aren’t trained well in vet school about small mammals, so rat owners have to know more than dog and cat owners in order to make sure their animals get the best care.)

I’m investigating the possibility of putting my rats on a ketogenic diet, because Dr. Phinney mentioned a study on ketotic mice that showed increased longevity, and I’d like to see if that carries over into rats. (I’ve just lost three sweet animals in the past ten days, and it gets very hard to keep saying goodbye.)

Also, in regards to the point of this thread, the article linked in the OP distorts some of the points in the abstract; the actual study seems quite a bit more nuanced than that stupid article. But without knowing more about the study it’s hard to draw conclusions. I suspect that a similar experiment on rats would greatly illuminate the picture.

As for drawing conclusions from animal studies about how human beings work, rats and people are similar enough that, with some care, preliminary conclusions can often be drawn, at least. Most drug studies rely on rats, for that very reason.

(Leslie) #17

I have kept many, many wonderful rats as pets over the years. They really are fantastic little creatures with distinct personalities and talents.

I’m very sorry for your recent losses

Rats are omnivorous like humans but are mice?

I did not read the body of the study. It’s the conclusion and the header of the article that I was so upset over. I hate media hype and especially when it makes sweeping statements such as this one did

Thank you for your insight. I appreciate it.

(Ellen) #18

@PaulL sending you hugs, I know how awful it is to lose a furry ratty friend.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #19

For what it’s worth, my impression of Medicalxpress.com is that its articles aren’t worth the paper they’re written on. (Hint: it’s a digital magazine. :laughing:)

P.S.—Thanks, Leslie, thanks, Ellen.