Maintainance? losing muscle? Largely reduce fat intake, been at desired weight but have more % fat now


#1

Hi all! Its been 14 month keto, intermittent fasting been doing well. I got on keto due to blood sugar and energy problem. over the last 6 month I have reduced fat intake by watching and reading Keto info. Mostly is well. However I been noticing some things that I am concern of not sure what to think of it. Want to see if anyone here had similar experience and or suggestions.

  1. *noticing like both shoulder, my back, joints, or muscles are weak never had joint or cartilage or muscle problem, however i have not done much as far as weight training over the last 8 month. I feel some muscle sensation sometimes I was worrying that my fasting is eating away muscle… (i read up on that supposedly it does not). I keep good maintenance - take salts, mag, potassium, good trace
    mineral…supplements.

  2. I am smaller like 135lbs. I read up to reduce fat intake if i want to just maintain weight. so now I have more fat on my body then before which is weird. really confused while on maintenance do I still eat substantial fat? I have consist ketone from 0.5 to 1.5 - one meal and 2 meal per days. When I fast 24 hours to 48 it goes 1.5-3.5.

  3. I do eat carbs every now & then small amount, I have been low carb for 10 years prior to keto. When I do eat carbs my blood sugar does spike. Blood work came by at A1c at 5.9 which is higher then before. 10 month ago at 5.5 when I started keto 3 month in. so is the insulin sensitivity ruin my A1c numbers?? Should I on purposely eat carb to de-sensitize my insulin?

Looking up on lots videos like dr. Berg to thought to maintain the weight I should eat less fat, I end up having more protein to satiate… I don’t know I feel like something is off. I am not sure where to look… Thanks in advance for taking the time to read my posting.

FYI, I often look up- Dr Berg, Thomas d, diet dr., dav feldman… been following them.


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #2

One thing that doesn’t change with maintenance is carbs. Keep sub-20 grams per day or less and I think you’ll be OK. Do you weigh food? If not, you may be consuming more carbs than you realize. Some folks will tell you that ‘metabolic flexibility’ will enable you to increase carbs without problems. But the question is why would you? Carbs serve no useful purpose.

As for fat, I’ve been in maintenance for 2+ years and still eat lots of fat. In those 2+ years my weight has varied between 145-150 pounds. My current macros include 2x fat as protein. Until about 3-4 months ago, I ate 2.6x fat as protein and did so for the first two years of maintenance. I changed only because I wanted to increase protein without increasing total daily calories. I’m 74 and I think at my age more protein is beneficial.

Other than that I don’t think the exact proportions of fat/protein matter all that much as long as you keep in mind that fat is fuel and protein building materials. If your hormones and thyroid are not screwed up, stored fat simply represents the amount of consumed energy that exceeds your daily energy requirement.

One other thing is ethanol. Ethanol doesn’t ‘kick you out of ketosis’ but it does interrupt it. Ethanol can also add a lot of energy that gets stored if you drink more than very small amounts. I’m referring to ‘hard liquor’. Beer, wine and mixed drinks all contain lots of carbs which will all get stored as fat in addition to unused energy from the ethanol.


#3

Physical inactivity and/or chronic stress will accelerate muscle loss.

Are you getting enough vitamin A and D in your diet?


#4

I was losing my hair when being totally less then 20g carb per day and most that came from veggie, when I up my carbs some I noticed the hair loss went away. so I prob maintain about 50 carbs instead of 20 now. Not daily. The weight is still the same. taking from what you are doing, I think i am eating too much protein (which can turn into reserve carb). not being active due to my pain in the shoulders or back (losing muscle being inactive). that changes my composition of muscle/fat ratio. I guess when i hear to reduce fat, I made it meant 2x protein 1x fat.

Thank you so much for sharing what you are doing! I will tweak my ratios.


#5

was on A & D then stopped. recent lab showing low again. so will step up on it. Thank YOU!


(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #6

(Bunny) #7

I do things a little differently but here are some tips to add to your knowledge base:

• Vanilla beans straight out of the pods: adding a little of these to your diet helps put more mitochondria in your muscle tissue for weight maintenance in contrast to higher carbohydrate tolerance and greater metabolic speed.

• Doing squats helps build more upper body muscle. So you have to eat a more calories to speed up metabolic rate. The bigger the muscle volume, it then becomes effortless to not store fat.

• Cold Showers even for a minute or two (as long as can stand it, you start to tolerate it better the more you do it) will help with higher carbohydrate tolerance and greater metabolic speed. This also puts more mitochondria in white adipose tissue so when you do eat a carbohydrate it gets burned immediately for fuel. not stored.

The more muscle volume to fat ratio you have the better chances you have of burning anything you eat immediately. You over-eat protein or fat and bile will direct excess glucose to be stored in muscle tissue as glycogen (and maybe even the liver and adipose fat cells) and stored which blocks lipid droplets from being released from adipose cells and not released when you over-eat protein or fat.

When your not eating enough or over-eat you then gain the risk of gaining all the weight back if you ignore your hunger signaling after practicing fasting and time restricted eating, and caloric restriction quits working?

Bottom line muscle to fat ratio matters more than focusing on type of food sources and amount your eating in calories and if you ignore that, you will be eating 20 grams of carbs for the rest of your life? Not fun?

References:

[1] “… After exercise, the rate of glycogen synthesis is increased to replete glycogen stores, and blood glucose is the substrate. Indeed insulin-stimulated glucose uptake and glycogen synthesis is elevated after exercise, which, from an evolutional point of view, will favor glycogen repletion and preparation for new “fight or flight” events. In the modern society, the reduced glycogen stores in skeletal muscles after exercise allows carbohydrates to be stored as muscle glycogen and prevents that glucose is channeled to de novo lipid synthesis, which over time will causes ectopic fat accumulation and insulin resistance. The reduction of skeletal muscle glycogen after exercise allows a healthy storage of carbohydrates after meals and prevents development of type 2 diabetes. …” …More

[2] “…Further, unlike fat, muscle helps to burn calories and boost metabolism, even when at rest, according to the Mayo Clinic. This helps create lasting weight loss results. For this reason alone, the goal of losing “weight” in general is not desired if it means losing muscle. …” …More

[3] “…Years ago, scientists found that a pound of fat contains 3,500 calories of energy. However, burning one pound of body fat isn’t as simple as reducing your calories by that amount ⁠– your body loves to burn muscle too. Scott Laidler learned this from his own journey when he first started out in fitness. He said, “When I cut I took my calories too low and in the process worked off a lot of the muscle mass that I had gained. The phases would cross over for a few weeks, where I would look and feel good, but I wanted to be lean and muscular all year round. It really wasn’t satisfying.” …” …More

[4] “…Insulin resistance (IR) is the result of long-lasting positive energy balance and the imbalance between the uptake of energy rich substrates (glucose, lipids) and energy output. The defects in the metabolism of glucose in IR and type 2 diabetes are closely associated with the disturbances in the metabolism of lipids. In this review, we have summarized the evidence indicating that one of the important mechanisms underlying the development of IR is the impaired ability of skeletal muscle to oxidize fatty acids as a consequence of elevated glucose oxidation in the situation of hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia and the impaired ability to switch easily between glucose and fat oxidation in response to homeostatic signals. The decreased fat oxidation results into the accumulation of intermediates of fatty acid metabolism that are supposed to interfere with the insulin signaling cascade and in consequence negatively influence the glucose utilization. Pathologically elevated fatty acid concentration in serum is now accepted as an important risk factor leading to IR. Adipose tissue plays a crucial role in the regulation of fatty acid homeostasis. The adipose tissue may be the primary site where the early metabolic disturbances leading to the development of IR take place and the development of IR in other tissues follows. In this review we present recent evidence of mutual interaction between skeletal muscle and adipose tissue in the establishment of IR and type 2 diabetes. …” …More


(Ken) #8

One thing that does change with Maintenance is Carbs. When trying to normalize hormonal secretion patterns, eliminate Resistance issues, and lose weight you keep your carbs low enough to be mainly secreting Glucagon and be in Lipolysis.

Once in Maintenance, understanding Glycogen becomes key. Detrimental readaptation does.not occur until liver glycogen is full (Compensated) with subsequential overcompensation, in a.chronic sense, leading to rises in Resistance levels and fat gain (Lipogenesis).

The liver holds around a Day’s worth of Glycogen, how fast you fill it up depends on types, amounts, and frequency of whatever carbs you eat. If you really chow down like in a CKD recompensation, you can do it in as little as 36 hrs. That’s lot’s of carbs, above and beyond what you burn for normal energy usage each Day.

IMO it is best not to set a higher daily amount of carbs, it’s too easy for amounts to creep upwards, so having a few carb meals or days thrown into the week with a period of Keto levels days in between is best. This allows lived glycogen to drop so you never get to the point of overcompensation.

You will flux some water weight when doing this, but there’s no possibility of regaining fat.


#9

Thank you ALL for your reply, your contribution and great info. Will implement ideas here. If there is any more to add to share, I would love to read more of it. Love this community!!