Macro Advice wanted

(Kerri Hines) #12

How are you getting so much protein? I eat nothing but meat and animal products and I don’t even eat that much protein.
Are you using any protein powders or are you eating only lean meat like chicken?

(Tj Slattery) #13

Right on the money. My routine and a high level overview of my week is below.

Wake and eat 1 scoop protein with 12 oz water

Core Exercise/body weight and resistance training for 45 mins (more for stress relief than weight loss)

Breakfast: 2 eggs, t bs butter, and 1-2 cups of spinach and 2 oz ham

lunch is 7 oz of grilled chicken breast with 1 tbs olive oil and either a cup of asparagus or broccoli sautéed in olive oil

dinner has been a protein either chicken, ground beef (80/20) or shrimp with an added oil/butter and an above ground vegetable

plus a gallon of water ever day

I measure, weigh and log everything. Highest gross carbs this week was 36 on Tuesday. I cut out the spinach and ham with breakfast this morning and today’s lunch was 6 oz of chicken breast and a full avocado. so I am trying to adjust.

(Kerri Hines) #14

Honestly. I think it’s silly to cut the spinach or worry about the carbs. 32g is totally fine. I don’t even understand why that’s even a question.
Forget the protein powder. It’s not a real food item.
Why not just eat breakfast like the one you listed before the workout? Or just eat after if you’re short on time.
Another question. Is your workout routine also new or have you been doing that for some time now? If it’s new, it’s no a terrible idea to at least not go at it real aggressively while adjusting. If it’s not new, then I don’t know why it would be an issue. Your body is already used to the exercise. Just don’t be surprised if you don’t feel your at the same level for a while. You’ll get back there.
If you’re going to eat lean meats, you may need to reduce the portion a bit and definitely add some source of healthy fat. 1tsp olive oil isn’t much. Or buy something like chicken thighs and eat the skin too. Problem solved. Adding avocado was a great idea too.
It sounds like you’re drinking a lot of water. You’ll need a lot of sodium to keep hydration balanced. Like 3000-5000mg. That’s more than just salting your food. Add some to water. Not so much that it’s a strong salt taste but enough that you know it’s there. You need to replace sodium on keto. The more water you drink, the more active you are and the more you sweat, the more you need. Some even need way more than 5g.

(Larry Lustig) #15

Honestly, doesn’t sound like you’re pursuing a ketogenic weight loss diet. Sounds like you’re pursing a body-building Atkins diet. Which is, of course, fine if that’s what you’re intending to do.

(Tj Slattery) #16

I really appreciate all the feedback. Thank you!
I can cut the protein powder easy enough, and just drink water with BCAA’s. That was simply habit prior to work outs and mostly for hydration, and to guard against burning protein during the work outs. The fitness piece was a way of life for a long time but due to change in work, I basically took the second half of 2105 “off” so its a “re-launch” if you will.

I was stuck on the carb count of 20, and realistically it didn’t take that many vegetables to exceed that, that why I removed the spinach, but I didn’t want to really because I need the fiber. I food prep for the work week on Sunday’s and can easily change to higher fat content proteins- thighs, ground beef etc. the portion size is to feel “satisfied”. I do salt the food-not aggressively, and I do take daily supplements of fish oil, magnesium, niacin, and a multi vitamin. My average sodium intake contained in the food alone this week was 2,734 mg, so i think im close. although i did experience some muscle cramping earlier in the week.

@larry I appreciate all the direction! I am trying to conform and live the keto plan, and this is week 1 for me. That’s why I am reaching out to the forums. Full disclosure In 2012 I was at an all time high of 260# , had a heart attack (literally) and worked my way down to 180, I kept it off with a 10 pound fluctuation until 2015 when a job role changed, and extensive travel derailed me. I was able to lose the weight with Keto principles- Low carb, higher protein but moderate fats. I read a lot about ketosis, listen to podcasts etc and Once reduced the carbs to below 50 g the weight really fell off. so that’s my story, Im a work in progress and hoping by heeding the advice that I come to learn over time, i’ll get back there. Clearly i still have a lot to learn! :slight_smile:

(Ross Daniel) #17

I was able to lose the weight with Keto principles- Low carb, higher fat but moderate protein. Fixed :slight_smile:

You’ll get there! It is a learning curve at first, but with the guidance of others it will become second nature. Plus, you actually asked for help instead of lurking and making a mistake or two and then becoming discouraged and bailing on keto thinking it doesn’t work.

#18

OK so reading through the comments I would make the following points:-

I agree. That is a LOT! I would cut the powders straight away - you just don’t need them. I would also switch and lean meats to fatty alternatives. I see that you are really going for this but get an inkling that maybe you still hold on to a bit of fat phobia? It is hard to give up (speaks from my own struggle!). Fatty cuts will improve the fat:protein ratio but will also be more satisfying. Unless you really don’t like them, I would do this straight away too. Chicken thighs with crispy skin have way more flavour than breast.

Decent range for you considering you are exercising.

I don’t agree with stopping exercise if it is a routine you are used to. I would, however, ease up if you are feeling tired or it feels harder than usual. If your body says, “I need a rest” listen!

Tracking is a great idea in the beginning to get you used to what portion size equates to what carb count. Once you get a feel for carb content you can quit it if it is a drag. A lot of people love to track however and there is no doubt that it is a useful record to have. Most will list calories so you can’t really avoid that element but I would not use them as any kind of measure right now - it is such a trigger of the bad old CICO days!

If you are counting total carbs, I really wouldn’t worry too much. The carbs you are eating are great. If you stick to leafy greens in the main, I really wouldn’t worry about the <20 goal too much. <20 is a great general level to give people as it will pretty well guarantee they get in and stay in ketosis. Carbs vary though with their impact so do what feels good for you.

I really would not recommend that - ugh, I feel a bit queasy just thinking about it! If you need something pre workout, go for a high fat snack like a small handful of macadamias or some MCT or coconut oil maybe? Many people workout fasted but that is when they are fat adapted. Do what feels right.

Actually, needing the fibre is a bit of a myth. However, if you like your veggies, keep them at the level you like, at least for now.

I think you will find you are more satisfied on a smaller portion if it is a fatty cut. Try it and see.

and that is a level that a number of people can work well at. You could be one of the lucky ones. If you find you are coming unstuck, simply try dropping the carbs a bit.

Sound like you are off to a great start though. Keep it up. x

(Tj Slattery) #19

@daisy thank you for the detailed feedback. After some minor adjustments yesterday I was at 55% fat, 36 % protein and 9% carbs. I am a bit stuck on the CICO culture, and have tried to meet the macro percentages within a 1700 calorie daily. My fat intake has increased with the feedback received here so far, while carbs have been under 50 but not yet consistently at 20.

I’m a tracker, details guy in order to keep accountable and to chart progress. Inches, weight, body fat % all of it. I bought keto stir today as a baseline, and understand the feedback regarding reliability but it gives me a starting point. I’ll get there.

One thing I think is weird, I am craving milk like crazy! Any thoughts there?

#20

It is hard to let go of - I get it. Try and think back to all the times you have relied on calories as a measure of what you can eat. The times I would manipulate what I ate so that I could get a Magnum within my daily carb allowance was way too often! What happened in the end was that I went mental and ate two boxes in one sitting! Focusing on WHAT you are eating is way more important than calories and I would not adjust what you are eating to fit any kind of calorie target.

It is a lot easier IMO to use grams rather than % to work out what you eat each day. Set a carb level - your current consumption seems fine to me because of the type of carbs you are eating. You might want to work out at some point what the net carbs are. Work out the protein range for your height, activity level etc. and try and stick reasonably within it. Then eat fat to make sure you are not hungry. It is way easier to do this if you start with fatty cuts of protein, especially if adding fat still makes you wince a bit!

Try for a while to eat to how you feel. Yes record and track but don’t eat to the tracking numbers, eat to what your body is telling you and see what happens.

No idea re milk other than a sugar craving (lactose).

(Tj Slattery) #21

Good call on the lactose! Ps I just used those percentages for a high level measure. I’m tracking all the macros via grams. Here is what my day looked like yesterday, and below are my averages for week 1.

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#22

Great improvement on the carbs. But I would agree with @larry in changing the fat to protein ratio. Have you worked out what your ideal protein intake is for your LBM?

(Tj Slattery) #23

I’m not exactly sure how to measure my LBM. I know it’s under there somewhere :grin:

(Larry Lustig) #24

If you’re looking to eat ketogenicaly I just want to point out that you seem to be eating a lot of very lean proteins. Chicken breast, in particular, is more expensive and less healthful than legs or wings.

#25

Lol. I have set up a topic to collect recommended calculators for LBM here…

https://www.ketogenicforums.com/t/how-do-i-calculate-lbm-lean-body-mass/4595

Once you have it, a general guidance is 1-1.5g per kg LBM although this may go a little higher depending on your exercise plan. If you are doing muscle gaining type workouts you might want more. The best way to find out though is to experiment on yourself - try different levels and see how you feel and how your body reacts. There are plenty of people who will jump at the chance to dictate exactly how many grams of this and that you need but you are the best person to work it out.

(Alex Dipego) #26

Remember you’re a bigger guy and have body fat to burn. But if you have enough glucose you won’t be burning that body fat too easily. So if you want to be that strong 180, eat that protein. You at highest that’s .8x your weight (of180) that puts you at 145. That’s still pretty high, but if you’re active you may not be wasting much. Of course you don’t need a lot of protein o maintain muscle mass as when properly keto that protein the body needs will more than likely come from excess skin rather than muscle.

Honestly I’m not sure you’re in ketosis. With that said I’d up your fats until you are and then slowly cut them down so that the body burning fat will start grabbing at BF.

The immediate result culture is strong, we need to take a minute and understand the processes at work and understand that you didn’t get this way in 30 days or 12 weeks. It’s been a lifestyle from years of practice that you’re fighting. It will take time to reverse the damage and it will take time to feel strong again. Knowing you’ll feel better internally and externally especially mentally should be what’s driving you. Love yourself and the journey and be patient.

Back to my point! Eat until full. If you want to track go ahead but to let the number of calories scare you. Bring so low for so long is CICO and slows the metabolism. We want to get that metabolism going hard!

(Gary Villines) #27

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so what about this? I’m 6’3" 247# and in relative good shape. I’ve got my carb gr down. But how much protein is too much?

(Jason) #28

@Tj_Slattery - what app is that?

(David) #29

That’s My Fitness Pal.

(ds) #30

I cant read all those replies, sorry everyone, but you responded to OP not me. :blush::thinking:

Dear op. Stop counting calories they say. If you are like me you cannot do this. Hopefully like me you can see some logic in their arghments about the issue being with the hormones and such. As such shoot for 3000 calories per day. Also fast sometimes and intermittent fast sometimes. Not all the times. Mix it up. Even getting a low calorie day is sometimes good so the body doesnt become resistent to the same thing(s) you keep doing. Fasting talk podcast today was great and dr fung talked about resistence. I think it applies here too. Mix it up and most of the time on your eating days keep the calories high and youll do better. Hopefully everyone already said this. Good luck.

Oh, and toooooo much protein. Keep it to 120 grams tops and see how you feel.

(Consensus is Politics) #31

Ok, this puts me in a position of embarrassment and ridicule, but it’s for the greater good of anyone having issues starting out on Keto.

August 29, 2017 I was diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes. I weighed in at 245 pounds. My heaviest ever, but it was on a upward climb for months, no matter what I did (feel free to ridicule, for I was so sedentary I was just this side of a coma I’m sure. Sitting most of the day, avg maybe 1000 steps per day).

After about a month I started Keto. Other than what I ate there was ZERO change in lifestyle. I think it’s important to note that. Still one foot in the grave so to speak, no exercise. I’d argue i was doing the opposite of exercise. That being said, I lost 20 pounds the first week, and an addition 20 pounds over the next two weeks. For a total of 40 pounds in three weeks, eating fat to satiety, and no exercise. [EDIT: I was wrong about the time frame. I found data the showed me my actual start date for Keto. That was Oct 17, of 2017. By the 31st of that same month (14 days) I had lost those 40 pounds. I don’t really care if it was ‘mostly water weight’. I was lighter, could move more easily, my clothes were looser, it wasn’t dificult to get out of bed, I didn’t get winded going up one flight of stairs. Try lugging around a suitcase or two all day long and not feel relieved when it’s gone🤠]

My blood sugar is never out of normal, healthy, Non-diabetic range now. My HBa1c was 11.7% and based on my avg BG over the past three months (which includes my first month of a avg BG of nearly 300 for that month) the projected a1c is now 5.8%.

My weight loss as of last week leveled out and 200 pounds. I have so much energy now I get off off my but and look for things to do around the house. I pulled my stationary bike off the back porch, where it sat for five years getting a thick layer of dust in it as well as a few things living in it, tore it apart, cleaned it up, and began riding it everyday.

I was still eating two to three meals a day for the most part. But I have done the occasional fast for a day (24 hours) or a tad more. But mostly I think my food intake was just a little too high for weight loss.

So recently I learned about how much protein I should be eating. I hadn’t realized before that it needed to be kept lower, just keeping my carbs under 20 was going to be enough I tthiugh. And I have been keeping that near zero as much as possible. Just incidental carbs at <1 gram per meal.

Turned out I wasn’t too far off, and was very easy to get my fat/protein levels adjusted rather easy.

I ride that stationary bike for anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour (7 to 15 miles) every day usually twice a day. I never get tired on it like I used to, I can go for several hours I’m sure, but I don’t want to feel bored while doing it, and my iPhone won’t last the entire time without a recharge. Now I don’t feel so guilty when bingeing on Netflix.