Low ketones?

(Laura) #1

I’ve been doing this keto for between six and seven weeks. Just in the past couple days, I felt a little different. For one thing, I slept more last night. Oh although in general on keto I have been both getting and needing less slee— but I was still getting a little bit less than I think I need (not feeling entirely rested). So last night, with more sleep, was a positive change. Also if my sleep tracking watch is correct, I’m getting a ton of deep sleep— but I don’t know how accurate that is.

The other change is that hunger is different. Feels more physical and less psychological. It feels much less like an urge— much less like an urge that would be similar to an urge to drink alcohol or use drugs. It just feels like a signal from the body that I could ignore for a while if I wanted to. And then when I eat kind of a lot in one meal, it feels a whole lot like when I was a teenager or a child. I don’t get bloated or tired or anything. And I know when to stop. And I seem to have more ability to eat more volume.

I took those signs to be positive. But I just got a blood keto test And I’m only measuring .7 this morning and 0.4 just now. It’s early evening here.

The urine strips are high ketones this morning. But I know those are very accurate, right? And do those measure a different kind of ketone?

I keep hearing from people in here his ketones are very high, level one and higher, level three, etc.

Is it more likely that I’m doing something wrong or more likely that my body is using ketones even after this relatively short time? Does anyone else experience 0.4 and lower ketone levels? I guess I was hoping for higher, but I’m happy to adjust my hopes in the face of actual information and science…

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #2

You are getting on toward being keto-adapted, from the sound of things. The description of your hunger sounds as though your hunger and satiation hormones are re-regulating themselves. The craving feeling is a sign of carbohydrate addiction. Real satiety is not a feeling of being too stuffed to fit more in, but rather a sense of simply not wanting any more. I believe that when I stop being hungry these days, my stomach is probably only half-full by volume.

As for your serum β-hydroxybutyrate level, it’s not productive to chase ketones, and a higher ketone level doesn’t correlate with faster fat loss or anything. Phinney and Volek have acknowledged that their definition of nutritional ketosis being 0.5 mmol/L or above is fairly arbitrary. The fat-adapted athletes they studied often have ketone readings around 0.2, if you read the journal articles. If you are using urine strips, it is wise to expect them to stop registering ketones at some point, because the kidneys usually get better at filtering ketones out of the urine and re-circulating them. But even serum β-hydroxybutyrate tends to drop once the muscles have switched to metabolising fatty acids. But everyone is different in this respect, so the only thing we can say with confidence is that your kilometrage is guaranteed to vary.

(Laura) #3

A Just measured and it’s 0.1. Earlier today, it was 0.2.

I realize ketones can get lower if the body is using them more efficiently— but is this too low for that conclusion?

Maybe the only thing to do right now is bite the bullet and go zero carb. My only carbs are basically from nuts and avocados and a few vegetables, 95% chocolate (usually I’ll just eat a serving which is 10 or 11 total grams carbs) and sometimes berries but not that many.

I hope the issue is that my brain and body are just using whatever ketones, but it’s so hard to know.

The bigger issue here is that I am still sometimes snacking for emotion and mood. And that’s where the chocolate and nuts come in although I really don’t think there’s a lot of it. I want some sensory pleasure and I still feel we live in a hard sensory world a lot of the time. I snack when Tired, especially while parenting. I guess it’s really about kicking the emotional snack habit. If I am zero carbs and I don’t think that having a low ketone reading will bother me!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #4

Don’t chase ketones. There is no obvious connection between serum β-hydrdoxybutyrate level and the speed or amount of fat loss. What we want from a ketogenic diet is not so much the actual ketones, but the metabolic state that leads the liver to produce them: generally low serum glucose and low serum insulin. The reason being that hyperinsulinaemia and hyperglycaemia both damage the body.

BTW, if you want to snack, how about a lower-carb, higher-fat snack, such as pork rinds, pepperoni, or a hard cheese? (Hard, aged cheeses tend to have minimal carbohydrate content.) Dr. Robert Cywes, a bariatric surgeon, feels that emotional eating is one of the biggest hurdles facing the patients he puts on a ketogenic diet, and he says he keeps a cup of coffee handy at all times, in order to give him something to do with his mouth when the urge to eat for emotions strikes.

#5

Only? I lost 100lbs with those levels, you’re ketone levels don’t matter, they don’t correlate with fat loss. Unless you have a medical condition that requires high ketones for a therapeutic effect… you’re wasting your time and worrying about nothing.

Sounds like you’ve identified your actual problem. Track with crononmeter, and you won’t be guessing anymore. If you change something, you can see the connections.

(Robin) #6

Laura, I have never checked my ketones. Never saw the need since I am doing everything I can already. And your description of how your physical feelings about food and eating have changed… made me SO HAPPY!

That! That right there is my absolute number one most bestest favorite thing about keto. I had forgotten what actual hunger pangs felt like. Now, food will be nowhere in my mind and suddenly my tummy will say, “Knock knock, you should eat something.” Whaaaat??!! Amazing.

(Laura) #7

This is extremely helpful to know. Likely though, I’m using a ketone reading so I can avoid counting carbs. Otherwise, it seems safe to assume that if I stay under 20 total carbs a day and I eat enough food, I’ll become fat adapted, which is what I want.

I get bored with most no-carb snacks like pork rinds. I’ve been eating plain whipped cream, sometimes with stevia, for a snack. But maybe getting bored with snacks is a good thing . . . Doesn’t it take 8 weeks or so to retrain the brain?

THAT is encouraging! That’s the kind of thing I was wondering about. And congratulations! It’s hard to argue with results like that.

I suppose that this way of eating still seems foreign and limited-- especially with almost no fruit and few vegetables, and no beans or rice. (No cake or ice cream makes sense, but feels restrictive since frequent desserts are so normalized.) So I begin to wonder, Am I going against traditional health advice for nothing? It’s important to hear stories like yours.

Very nice! So that’s real, and not something I only imagined starting to happen. I’ll wait for the continuing benefits. I do think I may have to stop the snacking behavior, to help that change along. Even if I eat as frequently, just not out of boredom. Today I got out a pile of case law and as I settled in to read it, I immediately reached for the spot in my desk where I’d always kept snacks. My arm was moving without my knowing why! There were no snacks there today, just a bare drawer. I had this moment where I thought, “Why is my hand in this drawer?” There was some direct line from “Big intense but passive pile of sedentary work” and “Reach for fun snacks.”