Yep. Dr Naiman’s simple graphic that is shown on the front of that article just really hit home with me when I first saw it. “If you’re body is already HF, then all you really need is the LC”. It just finally clicked and was a definite “aha” turning point moment for me. But, I think that’s just how this goes. There is a lot of information to try and absorb and understand after years of being fed so much misinformation about nutrition. It can be overwhelming and just takes time to get it figured out for ourselves. Following Dr Naiman’s example, I’ve been trusting that higher protein is fine and am currently experimenting myself with it. Your article links to additional articles on the gluconeogenesis topic and so now I’m delving in to those. That’s always the “thing” that’s brought up to argue against higher protein and not fully knowing the science behind it I’ve been sort of ignoring it as I experiment with higher protein levels anyway. Now though with these articles I’m seeing that the science is not as simple as just “excess protein turns into sugar”. Gluconeogenesis is much more complex and not necessarily to be as feared as we earlier thought. I need to fully absorb and try to understand this new information. That’s where I am right now anyway on my pathway of learning as I live Keto. Thanks again for the link.
Low(er) fat keto?
YES! This! I started to regain my 70+ pounds. I got myself stopped at 8-10 pounds of regain. This was about 3 years into my 5.5 year maintenance, so far. Both bringing my fat grams closer to protein grams AND IF 17:7 , 6am to 1pm helped a lot.
I do think I was over on fat intake to a fault for my own body, my past 40 years of obesity, and having a desk job. My genetics. too. My body was telling me- um, too much fat, too much total.
I’m by no means low fat, but to have 5.5 years of weight maintenance, I have to cycle through a fat grams: protein grams close times and sometimes a little higher in fat. The IF is frosting on the cupcake I will never eat again due to food addiction remission. 
See that bump on the right side of the graph? That was me eating too much fat. It took a long time to figure it out, but I did. Tough lesson learned.
40 years of morbid obesity, Hashimoto’s, and menopause: I can tell you my fat wants to come back, but I won’t let it. Kudos to Amy and Ted for offering tools for our selection or exclusion. Onward.
In my experience, when first going keto and trying to enter ketosis, I pay no mind to fat and eat to satiety. Otherwise, I’ll be hungry and go off plan. So, for 2-3 weeks, I really eat a lot of fat and once I’m keto adapted or fat adapted, I no longer have carb cravings. That’s when I dial back the added fats considerably and still stay sated.
I think trying to do low-fat keto while still a glucose burner is a recipe for disaster. Fat is a lever I use to get into ketosis and then dial back as much as I can while I try and lose these last pounds.
@KBG used a good word above - “gently.” This is the approach I wanted to take in this post because sometimes I think some keto-pushers (not on this site) overplay the added fat and it can be confusing to those who don’t know the science and who aren’t losing weight.
No, just the opposite. Atkins induction is essentially high fat, moderate protein, low carb.
@wheeghee Keep in mind that, if you choose to go this route, once your body is low fat you will have to increase your dietary fat to maintain weight! 
I guess I am currently experimenting with your question of which comes first… to start out higher or lower fat. The first time I went Keto I did it by the book with Keto macro percentages and higher fat. Then I went off low carb for a bit and am now back on having started out this time with more protein and lower fat. Both starts were successful with weight loss so now will be to just watch/compare progress as I continue.
I think an important distinction too is that I would not consider or describe this as “low fat”, and I don’t think low fat is being recommended, but instead just “lower” fat. When I was on calorie restricted low fat diets, that was low fat. The way I am understanding and experimenting with this is there’s still a pretty good quantity of fat, just not as much added fat in the form of BP coffee, lots of cheeses, copious butter, etc. I picture high fat still where part of that high fat is already on my body and the other part is dietary.
You’re welcome. @richard has a nice new post on gluconeogenesis here.
F*CK your "diabetic" eye check!
I also have this bookmarked for later viewing (Chris Masterjohn):
In my view, GNG isn’t as binary or simple as some would like to believe. It’s much more nuanced as you point out. And variable among all of us.
YES! Good on you for figuring that out and recognizing it such that you can possibly help others who might be struggling or stalled.
It’s interesting you bring up the distinction of starting out ketosis with higher levels of fat and then lowering fat once fat adapted. I have noticed this myself as a need and natural occurrence rather than an intentional decision. Early on with ketosis and fat adaptation I really crave and need additional fat, usually in the form of cheese almost daily. After some time that completely goes away and I don’t touch the stuff. Our bodies really are pretty self regulating and will tell us what we need if we just pay attention and respond accordingly. All this analysis then comes back to the simple idea of eating fat to satiety. Early on I need cheese, later on I don’t. I think with some foods, especially BP coffee, people start out this WOE including BP coffee in their routine and it can become just a habit as opposed to a tool used to eat fat to satiety.
Great job @gardengirlkp. Congrats on your sustained success and on identifying an issue and problem solving it. Yes, it’s important to know and remember that this will be a fluid way of living and will require adjustments over time.
I can’t eat fat to satiety. I don’t have a natural off switch about 20% of the time or more. I never know meal to meal when my satiety signals will work. Even hour to hour, So I track my foods. YES!!! a lot of my weight maintenance foot template was built on habit.
I had to have the clarity and step away from my food addiction long enough to say- well I like BPC, but my muffin top subcutaneous fat and my clothes and my joint pain says- all the nopes!.. It’s a habit that I formed.
Good points. BPC worked, until it didn’t. Sigh.
For me BP coffee is now a special occasion dessert. You know… it used to be we’d make hot chocolates with marshmallows or whip cream on a cold night or holiday gathering… now that’s BP coffee!
Yep. Exactly what I was trying to figure out/understand when I posted this: If the rule is "eat fat to satiety," then why do people drink BPC
I’m a keto newbie (end of 7th week), so if this comment seems to display a lack of knowledge, please bear with me.
This post caught my attention because just this morning I was looking at my macros from start day, and now that I’ve lost weight and a little body fat, I was wondering if I should recalculate my essential data to reflect current weight and body fat and readjust my daily intakes, or keep the intakes the same as day one. Hope this makes sense. If this is way off subject and I should post in a separate thread, please let me know.
@HudsMarie Congrats on your success! Have you gotten yet to where you feel you can listen to your body and can sense satiety? I personally use calculated macros and keto percentage ratios as a general guideline and do not hit them consistently every day. My numbers fluctuate around the general area. Some days I need more, some days less. So I personally would not recalculate and try to stick hard to new numbers after just 7 weeks because I don’t think the weight loss would be significant enough to change the target numbers more than the general window that my daily fluctuations fall inside of.
Thanks. I do know it’s early to start making big changes, but I wondered in principle. I definitely know when I am satiated, and stop eating, but yesterday, for the first time I made myself finish my plate (old bad habit) and regretted it afterwards. So now I know I need to listen to my body when it tells me I’ve had enough.
What about coffee with only a teaspoon of butter or coconut or MCT oil? I like cream in my coffee but wanted to eliminate dairy, so I make blended coffee with a tsp of either butter or coconut oil or MCT oil and it gives it enough creaminess but with just 5g of fat instead of 15-30g fat.
A teaspoon? Pfft. I wouldn’t worry or double think about that! I think when we get into TBSP+++ land, it can have different effects and consequences consistently over time.
I agree unless you’re following some weird bleeding-edge macros, which from your log I know you’re not. Moderation comes into play here and a teensy amount of butter is probably not going to be a dealbreaker. @KetoLikeaLady
Agreed! Incidentally, a tsp of coco oil, MCT oil, butter all have roughly 5g fat - as does 1T of heavy creamer.
Right. I don’t sweat stuff like this. I’ve been catching myself lately with touches of orthorexia and have been reminding myself that if we can’t have a tsp of butter in our coffee (especially instead of cream!) on a LCHF WOe, then heaven help us all. But again, your approach is much different than most BPC approaches you see, and seems quite within the realm of reason, actually.