Loose Skin autophagy vs muscle loss


(Hyperbole- it’s the best thing in the universe! ) #61

I’ve been thinking of adding collagen. Have any suggestions?

(Karim Wassef) #62

That’s interesting… I experimented with collagen for muscle gains before I settled on using leucine instead.

But if I’m driving autophagy to consume old loose skin (which is collagen), why would eating more collagen help?

Could be the availability of fresh external collagen pushes the body into a comfort zone of breaking down its own? Counterintuitive but the body chemistry is a nonlinear feedback …

Kind of keto = eat fat to teach the body to burn fat to lose your own fat… = eat fat to lose fat…

Except here it’s = eat collagen to teach the body to burn collagen to lose your own collagen (skin) = eat collagen to lose skin…

If that’s true then cycling collagen would basically “prime” the skin eating machine and then let it loose on the loose skin (pun intended- see what I did there :wink:)

Interesting - now need some science papers…

(Hyperbole- it’s the best thing in the universe! ) #63

Good question. I hope you share what you learn!

(Bacon is the new bacon) #64

I don’t know if one needs collagen per se, but certainly some kind of protein is required. I recently read in one paper that there is always some nitrogen being lost from the deamination of proteins disassembled by autophagy, so there is always a minimum protein requirement. I wonder if adequate protein might be a requirement for autophagy.

On the other hand, I know that people on these forums say that too much protein halts autophagy, so I don’t know.

Too many studies show up on PubMed if you search on “autophagy.” And the last time I looked for Chris Masterjohn’s course on looking up scholarly papers, I couldn’t find it on his site.

(Karim Wassef) #65

Fasting is autophagic and that has no protein intake but maybe some minor protein is superior to no protein?

I’m trying to avoid the linear thinking pitfalls here since it’s hormonally determined…

(Bacon is the new bacon) #66

So many questions, so little research money . . .

(Jane) #67

Only if they could figure out a way to mimic it with a pill they can make money from and people don’t have to fast (i.e. work for it) for autophagy.

(Karim Wassef) #68

I think fasting is free - and requires no work at all :smiley:
and that’s the problem… the solution is not what to do… it’s what to stop doing. No money in that.

(Troy) #69

Made me think.
To add

With low BF%
Lean as well

  1. standing up, the abdominal region looks “pretty” good😄

  2. HOWEVER- Getting in the plank position, looking down wind at the abdominal region
    Where did all that loose skin come from😡

Thankfully, daily—I’m not in the plank position for too long
+1 for gravity🤣

(The amazing autoimmune 🦄) #70

They actually do know the answer to this, even eating trace amounts of protein activates the mTor pathway which in turn deactivates autophagy that has been sped up due to fasting.

(Bacon is the new bacon) #71

Oooh, thank you! I didn’t know that. :bowing_man:

(The amazing autoimmune 🦄) #72

I have been studying it a lot🧐.

(Karim Wassef) #73

Dr Bikman’s research pointed to the result being non-linear…

if the glucagon to insulin ratio is high, protein accelerates fat loss … the exact opposite of the effect if the ratio is reversed.

i/g ratio ~ 11 minutes in

mitophagy ~ 15 minutes in

i/g ratio with protein while fasted ~ 19 minutes in

glucagon increase is more potent than insulin reduction for ketosis + protein/fasted increases glucagon ~ 27 minutes in.

I’m wondering if the protein assimilation demand energy = needs ketones? That’s basically the muscle building part.

(aka Nick) #74

This is really interesting. I actually just got back from the sauna. I lifted yesterday and was a bit sore, so I decided that 20 mins in the sauna would do me good. It made me think of needle rollers, and stiff brushing and such. If you want to talk about increasing blood flow to the skin, man, the sauna does that in spades. As a bonus, it also cranks up growth hormone in a big way!

My gym has a sauna and it’s only 4 minutes away. Best $10.00 a month I ever spent. I only lift once a week, but I use the sauna for “semi-active recovery” at least 3 times a week. It’s pretty awesome. Here is a vid from Dr. Rhonda Patrick about the incredible benefits to even just 20 mins in a sauna (increased GH, increased hypertrophy, improved insulin resistance, etc). She has some great content on fasting and authophagy as well.

(Jane) #75

I LOVE saunas!!!

And paid for 6 saunas at a yoga studio in Ft Worth and used 4 of them.

Got an email they were going out of business and to use your credits before the end of 2018. I was not local so forfeited my 2 sessions.

I did 2 of my sessions fasted and it was awesome.

(aka Nick) #76

That’s a real bummer. You might want to check out some of the local gyms. All the good one’s have saunas, and membership can be pretty inexpensive. I’m pay $10.00 a month for unlimited sauna use! It’s super nice with redwood benches, the whole 9 yards. Although now that I think about it, sauna’s might not be as common in FT Worth TX as they are in Upstate New York. You guys can get the same effect just walking outdoors much of the year.:grinning:

(Jane) #77

No kidding!!!

Ft Worth in the summer is 105+ F and brutally hot!!! But it is a dry heat.

Now, Houston where I grew up…95 F and 98% humidity,… now you are talking sauna!! :laughing:

(Karim Wassef) #78

I sauna every time I lift. I’m in Dallas and I go to LA Fitness - they all have saunas.

I also use tan beds - mostly because I need more sunlight to generate enough vitamin D - I’m olive-skinned. Without enough sunlight, I get colds and flu in the winter.

(Jane) #79

I travel a LOT for my job and not in any one town, state or even country enough to justify a regular gym membership. I took advantage of the sauna at my local gym in Houston when I lived there and had a 8-5 job.

I was happy to find a place I could buy a package of saunas I could use when I was in town and didn’t expire. Didn’t consider bankruptcy.

(Karim Wassef) #80

that’s why I joined LA Fitness - they’re everywhere and my membership gives me access to gym and
saunas everywhere.