Loose Skin autophagy vs muscle loss


(Karim Wassef) #21

Yes but I lost most of my fat on keto. I’m using fasting to try to fix it now.

(Bunny) #22

May want to look at this also:

(Hyperbole- it’s the best thing in the universe! ) #23

To be fair, Dr Fung never said no one had loose skin after losing weight by fasting. He said no one had enough loose skin to merit surgery. Considering his client base, that is quite an accomplishment.

(Alex ) #24


Just out of interest, would the surgery be provided via the state/free or is he/she suggesting that you pay for cosmetic surgery?

Not sure where you are, but I cant imagine any Doctor in the UK considering loose skin surgery on via our National Health Service unless it was so bad it was causing additional medical problems.

(Karim Wassef) #25

We didn’t even get that far. I asked him for a solution - he said surgery - conversation ended. :slight_smile:

(Karim Wassef) #26

Very interesting. I do IF/EF but now you have introduced a new concept (to me) of PC protein cycling. Lfod introduces the concept of red light therapy. Jenny introduces the concept of fat fasting…

You are all so cool. I have lots more to research now :smiley:

(Karen) #27

Weird, she wants you to cycle protein as well. She never mentions carbohydrates but she does mention reducing your protein cyclically to reduce your insulin

(Bunny) #28

Hmmm? Maybe you did not read it?

(Jane) #29

Ummmm… perhaps you did not read it instead Bunny?

In the article she mentions lowering protein consumption so you body has to eat is own protein since it can’t make it and ALSO to lower insulin response to trigger autophagy. She does not mention reducing your carbs, which will keep your insulin high and glucagon low. Makes no sense to me.

From the article on the section about protein consumption:

Protein Cycling (PC)

The next piece of reclaiming your youth is the protein cycling or PC part. PC is the practice of alternating between periods of low protein consumption and normal to high protein consumption. The reason you want to under-eat protein on some days of the week is similar to why you want to start intermittent fasting – it comes back to the dance between glucagon and insulin. Lowered protein intake means lowered insulin levels and higher glucagon. And recall that higher glucagon means autophagy is active. Since your body can’t make its own protein, if you don’t eat it (or eat enough of it) then it’s forced into recycling its existing proteins. This recycling activity is a fundamental task of the autophagy process.

(Karen) #30

I find it interesting and possibly correct. Maybe we should ( while keeping carbs low) alternate days of high fat low protein, then high protein lower fat.

(Bunny) #31

Hmmm? Perhaps your having comprehension problems also?

How strange two of them now?

Do I really need to explain this?

As long as both of you frequent the forum?


Hint: you answered your own question in the quote!

If your keeping your carbs under 20, 30, 40 grams you do not have to worry about the insulin trigger because you will be triggering IGF-1 (insulin growth like factor) from the liver, not insulin from the pancreas; so maybe that is where the confusion comes in even if your eating three meals a day?

Protein triggers the glucagon first then the insulin later (gluconeogensis); as much as up to four days later? Which is a more healthy and balanced glucagon to insulin triggering ratio!

Cortisol, estrogen besides insulin will also block the burning of body fat (but not dietary fat) even if you are in ketosis and doing everything correctly?


The author is keto so she might assume low carbohydrate intake and is making the protein recommendations in the context of LC, but she doesn’t mention carb intake in the article.

(Bunny) #33

The author probably assumes you already understand the carbohydrate part, I think it is actually parts of her book on the website that do not reveal the actual ‘how to’ ‘protein cycling process’…


I’m sure that @Janie and @Keto6468 understand the carbohydrate part just fine, but the article itself doesn’t say anything about keeping carbs low, which I think is the source of the confusion. You might have all read the article, but you (Bunny) assumed something that wasn’t actually in the recommendations.

(Bunny) #35

Please explain what I assumed?


That carbs are kept low.

(Bunny) #37

And if the carbs are kept low as opposed to kept high?

Explain what happens in both instances according to the protein cycling process?


I would think - and you yourself imply above - that the lovely effects on insulin and glucagon that you get from protein cycling go out the window if you’re eating high carb while doing the protocol.
In any case, I didn’t chime in to get into a discussion of the science but just to point out the source of the disagreement above.

(Bunny) #39

As I previously stated; the article on the website are more of excerpts from her book and I have no problem understanding it, it is perfectly crystal clear and makes a great addition to Dr. Fung’s paradigm on fasting and what is actually creating all that lose skin after losing lots of weight (actual body fat).

(Karim Wassef) #40

Wow. I appreciate the passion! Thank you. Sometimes passion drives some misunderstanding but I know there’s a genuine desire to help me figure this out.

I will need to put this (protein cycling) in the context of Dr Bikman’s research on protein under high glucagon low insulin. I don’t think this is a simple or linear relationship but your references are great to help me contextualize more of the thoughts here.