Looking to start Keto... I have some questions

(Jeff) #1

I’ve heard about Ketosis off and on for a few years and just came across 2KD and The Obesity Code podcasts over Christmas. Trying to start soon, but need to ask some questions to be sure I’m understanding this.

First, here’s a little bit of my history to give my questions context.
I’ve done 2 diets that “worked” for me… The Zone & Paleo. I lost 40 and 50 lbs on those.
The part that didn’t work for me was being married with multiple kids. These have gotten in the way of me sticking to the plans. (read: became my excuse) I’m still married and the kids are still at home, so along with everything else I need to learn to eat how I need regardless of how everyone around me eats.
By “worked” for me, I mean that not only did I lose weight and feel better, I also understood what I was doing to my body and why my body felt better. I have a hard time committing to something if I don’t understand it. In short, don’t hesitate to give me a scientific answer.
I’m also pretty sure that when I did Paleo, I actually got into Ketosis for awhile and didnt know it at the time. I had this euphoric period (for 2 or 3 months) when food was just so unimportant for me. I could eat a can of sardines or just 1-2 eggs and be fine until the next meal… and once in a while I even just skipped because I didnt care to eat at all. My mood improved. I had more energy physically. My mind was so much more clear. It was totally euphoric for someone like me who has been overweight my entire life.
I graduated high school at 265. By about age 39 I hit around 290 and then did the Zone and got back to about 250. By about age 42 I passed 308 and then did Paleo and got back down to the 250’s. Now I’m almost 330.
I just want to not have to obsess over food anymore. I want to reject things I know aren’t good for me and otherwise cook good, flavorful food and enjoy time with the people in my life.

Here are some starting questions about Keto:

  1. What vegetables CAN I eat when starting Keto? I’ve seen people mentioning the following as “safe” veggies for the keto lifestyle: Broccoli, Cauliflower, Asparagus, Spinach, & Squash. Can I eat these to start or do I need to cut out ALL carbs (no matter how low-density) in order to get into keto? For example, I like salads. And by “salad” I don’t mean one from McDonalds with tons of creamy dressing. I mean lettuce, radishes, celery, and some carrot shavings or diced bell peppers, and topped with balsamic vinegar & olive oil. Is that safe? Are there other veggies that are ok during this starting period? …and which ones can I do later? (I’m not asking about starches like potatoes, corn) I love almost all vegetables, so as long as I can eat some eventually, I will be happy.

2)How can/does fasting fit into starting keto? (by fasting here I mean nothing but water) I have fasted 24-36 hours a few times in my life and feel I could do that again easily to help kick start things. Would that help? The idea of fasting more days is kind of scary right now, but I’m open to it later.

  1. Also, Same question for “intermittent fasting” by which people usually mean 16 hours of nothing followed by eating in an 8 hour window… which is pretty close to the same as skipping breakfast or dinner. Is that good, bad, or indifferent when it comes to kick starting keto?

Thanks in advance!

(Consensus is Politics) #2

I leave the vegetable question to those that know more than I do about them. I’m a Type 2 diabetic, highly IR (insulin resistant) so even a small amount of carbs can take me out of Ketosis as my BG (blood glucose) spikes high and hard. If the vegetables have a lot of fiber, then it’s probably a sure bet that it’s ok. If it doesn’t have fiber to offset the carbs, take it easy on them.

Let me give you some insight into ‘how to do this’ by example. I heard of Keto several years ago. I poopooed it as just another fad. Eventually I heard enough about it, and how Steve Gibson (SecurityNow! Podcast) himself was talking how well he was doing and how great he felt. So I tried it out for about three months. I wasn’t T2D then, I just did it because I could. I lost about 30 pounds in a month, eating less than 50 grams of carbs a day. I still ate bread, rice, French fries, I just watched my total carb intake and after I hit 50 I cut them for the rest of the day. It worked. I went into Ketosis after about three weeks and felt great.

At one point back then I realized one day I hadn’t eaten in three days. I just wasn’t hungry at all. That scared me, so I went and ate. I eventually fell of the wagon because I wanted more French fries (my kryptonite) and pizza. So three months was my experience with it a few years ago.

I put on several pounds since then hit 250 at one point, managed to get it back down to 240, only to go back up to 245 where it got stuck for a few months, even with me lowering my intake of calories to maybe 1000 per day over several meals a day (think 5 a day). Come 29 Aug 2017, I was diagnosed with T2D with an A1c of 11.8% (I just got my official paper work from the V.A. last night. I had my follow up yesterday, and my officially measure A1c is currently 5.8%. My endo doc was told me to expect no better than 7%. I told her I expected a lot lower. I was pushing for <= 5.4, she laughed. Then I got the results last night. Who’s laughing now doc?) of course she poopooed the idea of Keto, told me it was sustainable for more than a month (it’s been 5 for me and I’m doing better every day🤠). [i tend to ramble on like that, let me get back on track🙄]

So back in Aug I got the big scare. I went to the ER with a BG level of 594! That’s called a “critical high” reading. They freaked. Wouldn’t let me leave until it got below 200. So I was there for 6 hours in the ER listening to the nurses say how sweet I was. Yeah, it went over my heard the first few times until the 4th nurse said it. She said, “I’m just coming over here to see you. I heard how sweet you were”:roll_eyes:.

So with the V.A. I get some free resources. Nutrition class, diabetes enlightenment class. Those to tell me how screwed I was. Basically to just understand the horrors of the disease, to get me to be compliant with what they tell me to do, such as diet, and inspecting my feet every day.

The diet was obscene to me. Basically I would be changing anything other than reducing my carbs a little. Well, and completely cutting my in between meal snack fests with bags of chips, candy, soda, you get the picture. But to me eating 45-60 grams of carbs per meal was going to be so easy.

After about 6 weeks including a med adjustment 2 weeks in, I wasn’t really seeing an improvement. My BG was still avg over 200 everyday. So I did a little research to see if a T2D could do Keto. That’s when I found this site.

I went carb cold turkey. As close to zero carbs as I possibly could. In 14 days I lost 40 pounds (to great disbelief by my Endocrinologist. She said she didn’t believe it, yet she was holding my records and could see the trend in it). My BG was under control in two days. Rarely above 120, and avg about 112 for the past 3 months.

This site has helped me understand my condition immensely. As well as get a better understanding of Ketogenics, and nutrition. Dr Fungs book has opened my eyes, and I no longer consider carbs as food. There is no backsliding this time. I see it as poison, and it will kill me over time. I even hate making meals for the kids when they come over because their mom wants them to eat “normal “ with rice, bread, sugary drinks, you know, all the normal poisonous stuff🙄.

I don’t think I’ve broken my verbosity record yet, so here’s a little more…

You will most likely get some very qualified answers to all your questions here. As well as the 2ketodudes podcast. Oceans of info between the two. My suggestion is pay close attention to some of the details. Like the overwhelmingly amount of info on INSULIN. Diabetes or not, this is key to weight loss. I never knew about it, and it makes a lot of sense. As well as discovering calories in/calories out just doesn’t compute. The entire “eat less/move around more” axiom that I myself lived by. Hogwash. Useless. Worse than useless it was harmful. Similar to 5 meals a day strategy. Wow. Eyes wide open now.

Welcome home.

(Andrew) #3

All those veggies are good. I think most of us can’t handle balsamic. Tomatoes in a salad are easy to OD on too. It depends how insulin resistant you are.

Starting with IF should shorten keto flu etc. Going from carbs to fasting will suck ass though. I’d just start Friday am, and eat all you want with no carbs. You should be close to the other side by Monday.

#4

Unlike other diets, a ketogenic diet has no inherent restrictions. It’s merely eating in a manner that allow YOU to be in ketosis. When you were in ketosis while following a Paleo diet, that was a keto diet.

To the degree that you’re insulin resistant, you will have to cut down on carbs accordingly. There are insulin sensitive folks who can eat 100g carbs and be in ketosis. Their keto diet doesn’t look like mine…

You like scientific answers, so here it is. What matters is n=1. Get a glucometer and determine your carb tolerance level. Use it to hone your macros.

IMHO, fasting is a great way to jump start the process. It forces the body into ketosis quickly, bypassing keto flu purgatory. Since that’s easy for you, maybe try to stretch it to 2 full days and eat on the 3rd day. By then you should be good to go.

#5

Very easy to look up the nutritional values of any veggie - start with knowledge and monitor progress.

(Jeff) #6

Thanks to you who replied.
@fatpants said “most of us cant handle balsamic” …is that personal taste or because of the sugar content & resulting insulin response?

I guess for getting started, it sounds like it is safest to cut vegetables (even safe ones) down as much as possible so carbs are extra low. Beyond that, what I’m hearing from you all is: use the numbers to help get started and pay attention to my body and glucose levels to see how well I tolerate carbs in general. The goal is to stay in ketosis… whatever works for me to accomplish that is fine.

I ordered some Ketone test strips, but they wont get here until next week.
I also see where I can buy a gluco/keto meter at CVS.
How important is it to test before I get too far along into cutting carbs and reaching keto?
Both for test strips as well as a1c?

(Andrew) #7

There are a lot of carbs in balsamic. My BG soars. Most people use acv or red wine vinegar i beleive.

The strips just help you learn faster.

A1c is a 3month avg of your Bg. So just get in the next few weeks and you are good.

Walking / any exercise will burn off your glycogen stores quicker (less keto flu). No need to kill yourself though. You don’t have a lot anyway.

(Jeff) #8

Are the home A1C tests from CVS/Walgreens good enough or do I need to get with my doctor’s office?

(Andrew) #9

That’s a lab thing, so you’ll need your dr’s office.

(Consensus is Politics) #10

I’m not aware of any home A1c tests. I’m pretty sure they do it by eye. Using a microscope and literally counting the sugar coated red blood cells. I could be wrong, but I wasn’t paying close attention to the nurse that was babbling about how it was done. Somehow I don’t think she even knew what it was and how it was done😂.

(Consensus is Politics) #11

I have two BG meters. The precision extra, and a CVS BRAND meter. The precision xtra BG Test strips are the most expensive I have seen. At $1 + each. And that’s buying them in largest qty box of 100 for $120. The CVS brand meter test strips are about 20 cents a piece $0.2 each. I use the CVS brand one several times a day, to see my trends. It’s not nearly as accurate as the procession xtra. My Endocrinologist says it doesn’t really matter. Once you know where you are just compare them and know if you are trending up. So it is good for that.

As far as using ketone Test strips. Your urine ketones will fluctuate. I recommend checking them every few days, after waking up. Exercise will efffect your ketones by burning them, hence few will show in your urine. My morning ketones will be at the top end of the scale on the strip. After an hour bike ride, and a newly filled bladder, my ketones are nearly just a trace amount. Eventually, it should only be trace amounts as your body adapts to using them as fuel. So really, it’s more of a novelty than a necessity. But come on… it’s friking cool as hell to see the product of hacking your own body to do something that the ‘medical professionals ‘ say you can’t do, or can’t sustain🤠

(Dan Dan) #12

If you like youtube I like DR. Berg he explains it in a simple way (for a simple person like me) :smiley:

Here is a good macro calculator :smiley:

You can try a Cheap Breathalyzer I think it would work better for your purpose :thinking:

“May the Force (fat adaption) be with you”

IF/EF Keto WOE is Self-Discovery :wink:

Good luck and much success in your journey in IF/EF Keto WOE :grin:

(Jeff) #13

@Robert_Johnson most drug stores have them. Just wondering how accurate they are.

(Consensus is Politics) #14

I’ll let you decide. I have two types. The Precision Xtra paid for by my insurance. The test strips are a dollar each. The CVS brand meter that I bought, with test strips that are about 5 for a dollar.

Accuracy? I did a test this morning. I checked using both meters within 30 seconds of each other. I have done this various times too. The results are always similar. The precision xtra showed my BG at 84, while the CVS showed it at 128. In the USA, the USDA allows for as much as +/- 20. Sobthat pretty much puts them both at each end of the spectrum. A forty point difference means to me that they are practically useless. Other than looking for trends of an average.

(Bunny) #15

That is incredible and that happened to me last night (was freaking out), I lost 20 pounds rapidly in 12 days (last weighed my self 01/01/2018) and the on call nurse for the insurance corp. said she has never seen anything like that as a nurse working in a hospital, and then she went on about water weight… (don’t try this at home).

(Consensus is Politics) #16

Gratz!