Long term keto frustrations

(Leslie Dingee) #1

I started my Keto journey in January of 2020 just before the pandemic hit. As everyone else was putting on the Covid 15 -I lost 50 lbs, hit my goal weight, A1c went from 6.1 to 5.1, triglycerides way down, daily testing of my blood glucose showed good glucose control, food noise gone, I felt great!

Now 5 years in and my body seems to have adjusted and reverted! I’ve put on 25lbs, ketone meter is in ketosis only after a 24h fast (I do one weekly), I intermittent fasting 2MAD 10&4, I track my macros so no carb creep, glucose is always between 116-130 even fasted, A1c back to pre diabetes 5.8, food noise is back! I have tried to go strict carnivore, cutting out dairy, and lowering fat- nothing seems to be working!! I think my liver is just making the glucose now back to my set point! Interestingly enough my fasting insulin is in a very good range of 3.7!

I’m at my wits end- thanks for letting me rant!

(Joey) #2

@Leslie_Dingee Welcome to the forum - and congratulations for your diligence in turning around your health.

The weight gain of 25lbs (after having lost 50lbs previously) is rather interesting. I have two questions for your consideration…

1 - Have you reason to suspect hypothyroidism? Weight gain can be associated with this condition as metabolism slows as a result.

2 - In general, how do you feel? Any changes in energy level detected? Presumably you’ve experienced some changes (improvements?) in how you’ve felt since losing the 50 lbs… so, any reversions in your sense of well being, energy level, sleep, etc.?

:vulcan_salute:

(Bob M) #3

The weight (re)gain is concerning. I would not be too concerned about not “being in ketosis”, because when they set those levels, they used people who hadn’t been in ketosis for very long. I am almost never in ketosis, and, like you, I have to fast a while to get “high” ketones.

The higher blood sugar is also concerning. Are those morning values or later during the day too?

Is there anything that changed in the interim?

(Edith) #4

Hi @Leslie_Dingee,

If you don’t mind my asking your age, how old are you? If you are in your 40s or low 50s, your troubles could be related to perimenopause.

(Bob M) #5

I was going to ask about age for the same reason. But I chickened out. Hard to ask about age sometimes. :wink:

(Leslie Dingee) #6

Thanks for the replies! I should’ve added my age 62 year-old female. I’ve just had comprehensive blood work done. Everything was pretty normal except for high androgens being postmenopausal suggesting PCOS even though I’m postmenopausal. Extensive thyroid panel normal. C

#7

One, congrats on the loss!

Since you’re tracking macros, what tracker are you using? I ask because most make blind assumptions on your TDEE, (ok, not blind, but typically Mifflin St Jeor calculations) and when they’re wrong, they stay wrong, you eat within (what you think) is where you’re supposed to be, and then you either don’t lose, or you gain. That was the main reason I switched from Cronometer to MacroFactor, as that figures out your metabolic rate and doesn’t guess at it (minus when you first start).

I originally had to go have my RMR tested to see how low it was. I had other crap going on to that definitely wasn’t helping, but same end result, slow metabolism.

There’s no shortage of people who have experienced thyroid down regulation after long term ketosis, I’m one of them. My Free T3 was in the tank, but it seems in most people that effect mimics secondary hypothyroidism, meaning your TSH doesn’t really rise much if at all, and mainstream quacks only check TSH, which in isolation tells you nothing. It’s your Free T3 levels that determine your metabolic rate. So even when many bring it up, a doc will check TSH, and Maybe Free T4, and then it goes unnoticed.

When I switched to a TKD/CKD protocol my thyroid numbers did improve noticeably, but not enough, I’m on thyroid meds now, which is awesome because now I have the metabolism I had in my 20’s.

(Bean) #8

Also, look at your meds. Both over the counter and prescription. Antihistamines (not just for allergies) can cause weight gain, for example.

(Cathy) #9

Sorry you are having these issues. Must be very frustrating. I have been keto/low carb for almost 16 years now and can gain weight if I get sloppy and just eat too much. But I am talking a few pounds … nothing like 25lbs.

I wonder if you can have your fasting insulin tested? It can be quite telling in a way - better than glucose testing. For me, my focus is to avoid insulin spikes which can be caused by all manner of things but primarily, eating. Just a slightly fuller than satiated can cause an increased insulin response. So for some people it’s important to monitor the amount of food along with the frequency of food.

I also believe that in order to keep weight off, we have to eat in the same way (or very close) to how the weight was lost.

Wishing you luck in finding your key.

(Ava Carter) #10

I started Keto in January 2020, losing 50 lbs and improving my A1c from 6.1 to 5.1. I felt great—good glucose control, no cravings.Now, five years later, I’ve gained back 25 lbs. I do intermittent fasting, track macros, but my glucose runs 116-130 even fasting, and A1c is 5.8 again. Food cravings are back. Tried carnivore, cutting dairy, lowering fat—nothing helps. Seems my liver keeps glucose high.Fasting insulin is still good at 3.7, but I’m frustrated.
If anyone has tips, I’d love to hear. Also, Mounjaro helps reduce weight and blood sugar levels — Get Mounjaro Online if interested.

(Cindy) #11

Hi, I’m a 70-year-old female, keto first for 5 years, and now carnivore for almost 3 years. I experienced the same frustrations on keto. First I lost a lot of weight, then my body shut down my metabolism and I gained much of it back over those 5 years. It was very frustrating. So I switched to carnivore and had mixed weight results at first. Lots of ups and downs, sometimes quite wildly! But I was eating so much more protein that I ever had in my life that I think my body was starved for protein. I tried not to panic, and just let my body heal, as the carnivore people all say to do for the first year. By the end of that first year, I had lost all the excess weight plus inches around waist and hips. Strangely, my female hormones seemed to have risen, at my late age! I didn’t lose anything around the bust. My second year still had a little bit of up and down, but only 5-7 pounds of variations. Now, my third year on carnivore, I’m rock solid stable at 115-117. No matter how much or little I eat, exercise, sleep, etc, my weight is just ALWAYS the same and I weigh every single morning as soon as I get up. I have several obesity genes from my family, and I have NEVER been able to maintain a stable low weight! Not even for a single month! Female bodies can be so over-reactive to every little thing, and mine did that horribly! So for me the carnivore diet is MIRACULOUS! It’s so easy to stay on (much easier than keto was for me), and it feels so good to be so stable. Over the 3 years on carnivore, my body fat dropped from 26% to 21% and my muscle mass increased from 45% to 50% according to my scale. I definitely have more energy, and much more muscle definition, despite being 70.

So maybe you just need to be patient, forget about the scale for a couple of years, forget about quick weight fixes and just focus on getting super healthy. Remember, if you convert a lot of fat to muscle, you WILL GAIN WEIGHT from just that change. I think I was doing that all through those first 2 years on the carnivore diet because my body finally had enough protein to build all that muscle with and didn’t have to waste time, energy and body systems on trying to digest all the unusable fiber that vegetables fill our bodies with. Making these huge life changes are a big commitment, and the older we are, the more damage we’ve done to our bodies, so the longer things can take.

#12

That’s brilliant, really well done!

(Bastet ) #13

That sounds super frustrating, especially after smashing your goals before. It’s like your body’s gotten too smart for its own good, huh? Maybe mix it up a bit with some different exercises? Sometimes a change in routine can trick your metabolism. You could check out some customer service info for fitness stuff like on https://yoga-go.pissedconsumer.com/customer-service.html, might give ya ideas. Don’t give up, you got this!

(Harriet) #14

You’ve heard of the freshman 15? Welcome to the 60s 30.

Having said that, I turned 60 this spring.

Apparently our bodies (male and female) go through major changes right around 60 (the big changes happen around early 40s and early 60s). For some of us it means weight gain, and I piled on 30 in the past year without even trying. I just got serious about it in May (I was in denial and depression). I’ve discovered I have to be ruthless about my calories (doesn’t help that I’m limited in exercise due to joint/mobility issues).

Basically you need to cut back even further than when you were younger (think 100 calories a day). And remember that alcohol is the devil, seriously. It sticks worse than superglue.

I’m just working this out myself. Everything was compounded by my being totally out of ketosis, took me a long time to get back in compared to a few years ago.

Now, plus side about high androgens, if your joints are sound you can get involved in resistance training if you aren’t already, and muscle takes up less space than fat, plus burns calories, so that’s something to think about.

OTOH, if the excess androgens are causing other issues (hair loss runs strong among the women of my family and I inherited that gene enthusiastically) you could ask your doctor about getting onto spironolactone, it helps with hair loss, unwanted hair growth and acne.