Long term healthy gut question

(Robin) #1

I was just re-reading some of William Davis’ book, Wheat Belly. A lot of good stuff in there about the benefits of our way of eating, (For overall health and weight) and supplements, etc. I just noticed that he has concerns about a long term keto diet perhaps setting up our gut to have too little healthy bacteria. I’m just curious about that. I would guess that, if true, there are (as per usual) supplements that address that need. Is that what a pro-biotic is? (And do y’all realize you have improved my Google resistance?)

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #2

The gut bacteria adjust to what we feed them. Fast long enough, and they’ll all die off. Give them carbs, you’ll get one kind of bacteria; give them meat, and you’ll get another kind. Sure, the butyrate they produce under certain circumstances, may be good for the colon, but there are indications that the β-hydroxybutyrate produced in ketosis is even better. I doubt we know enough about our intestinal flora yet to be able to make definitive statements, one way or another. The problem is that people put out their best guesses, and everyone else starts repeating it as though it’s fact, when it was merely speculation when it started.

#3

Definitely put a beating on mine, I never had digestive problems pre keto, they kept getting worse and worse. Pooping probs, bloating, crapping blood, wound up after 2yrs of that getting a colonoscopy to figure it out. Doc told me cut the crap and get in way more fiber. Haven’t had an issue sense. I also take probiotics.

(Robin) #4

Intestinal flora. Keto and you all certainly have increased my vocabulary.

(Robin) #5

So do you still limit carbs now or did you have to go a whole new direction?

#6

I still very much do low carb compared to “normal”, but I eat them daily, mainly around workouts to keep the glycogen up and a post workout spike. I still try to keep them the good ones and not garbage as much as possible. More or less doing normal keto on my off days, and somewhat TKD on my lifting days. A Couple weeks ago @ Vladaar_Malane posted a thing on Stan Efferding’s vertical diet, which I was aware of but only at a basic level. Since then I’ve been merging into that direction and digestion and feeling good gut wise has been improving huge. It’s weird, never though I’d been eating white rice again of all things! I guess at this point I’m doing a little of everything all at once. I think what got me on that was although Stan eats rice as a staple with his meat he’s also very aware of glucose and insulin and bad sugars etc. There’s a lot more people walking the lines and doing these hybrid type diets these days.

(Robin) #7

That makes sense. Our bodies (which include our brains) are probably smart enough to figure out what we need, if we listen. Of course, there is information out that that sure helps us find our way. I’m going to look into the vertical diet, out of curiosity. I’m hoping the day will come that i am on firm ground health-wise, weight-wise and confident enough to find a way to add more veggies.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #8

@robintemplin You need to be aware that @lfod14 is a :unicorn: His comments re carbs may or (probably) may not apply to you. So read with a grain of salt. The best advice for you as a newbie is to keep your carbs sub-20 grams per day for at least a year. Some folks have intestinal/digestive issues, most don’t. Just as you can find some folks have issues with many different things, and most don’t. Ketosis is the human natural metabolic state. It is healthy and healing. You want to keep yourself in ketosis as consistently as you can for as long as you can. If not, you will simply short change yourself. As noted by @PaulL, our gut fauna adjust to whatever is incoming; they’re not dumb and don’t need our dinking about trying to outsmart them. Just eat consistently.

(Robin) #9

Thanks. I know an outlier when I see one. I appreciate them. But I realize that right now I need to follow the crowd and stick to the well worn path. I need a plan and rules and numbers and discipline. No worries, I’m sticking with keto and having good results. But as a curious person, I like to hear from the lone drummer too. It’s something I appreciate about this forum.

(Allie) #10

Ia that the original edition you’re reading, or the revised edition? I heard him on several podcasts talking about how his opinions on many things have changed since he first published the original, hence the revised edition.

#11

Well I don’t know that I’m THAT rare… but to be fair it did take a LOT of playing around with and especially at first there was a lot of negatives to figuring it all out, like gaining almost 20lbs in 1.5wks. Lotta tweaking!

(Vladaar Malane) #12

I don’t think anyone knows for sure, because the science is still beyond us. But I am told this type or a version thereof that requires being packed in ice is best for probiotics.

Klaire Labs

(Bob M) #13

By this, I think you mean eat low carb? I pretty much eat differently each week, though it’s all low carb.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #14

Yes. I suspect gut bacteria respond to different macro proportions, and less to the specific different foods within each macro group. I can’t cite anything to back up that statement, but it seems logical to me. Our Pleistocene ancestors probably ate fairly consistently with some seasonal variation but they never had the possibility of walking into a grocery store and walking out with totally different food from different food groups every day if they wanted to.

(Bob M) #15

Probably so. Listened to a podcast with Dr. Paul Salandino where he and the dietician agreed we did not spend all of our time in ketosis and probably came out of it. The dietician said she’s in ketosis 6 months out of the year, then comes out, eating 100grams carbs per day.

Personally, I think that’s unknown, and likely depends on where your ancestors lived. Mine are from Europe primarily (I’m 50% Italian), so I probably have ancestors that came out of ketosis. But who knows what happened 2,000 years ago? To me, meat always seems to be better than plants, as you can feed a whole family for a long time from bison, but not much from plants. But I guess if you have starchy vegetables or olives (did they even eat them?) or nuts, you’d probably eat those too. Whether that would be enough to kick you out of ketosis and for how long, I don’t know.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #16

@ctviggen See the following for more details on the possibility/probability/feasibility on how our pre-Holocene ancestors ate: