Lo carb or low fructose?


(Will) #21

I feel like we as humans are nothing more than lab rats for big business. The only difference is we do have a choice when it comes to putting these poisons in our bodies


#22

I don’t know how much is that but probably 1 kg apple is more than enough. It’s very easy to eat that amount in one sitting (probably a few minutes is enough for softer ones) every day according to my experiences and I wasn’t even close to my limits (or have any skill at eating REALLY much), I just only bought 1 kg apple every day the way home for a while… It’s just drinking, my SO says too, very easy to eat a lot of fruit as it’s not dense except the sugar.
(Now I would have way bigger problems with drinking a glass of apple juice but normally, when one can handle super sweet items, it’s obviously way easier indeed.)

I agree with your comment, I even knew most of these things already, just saying that some of us ate fruits in bigger amounts, it’s not like fibers keep us to do so… Maybe the strange (for me, it’s probably very logical :D) “fiber makes me full” types. Fibers never changed anything for me. It doesn’t seem matter how much fiber I consume (on the woe where I naturally do it, at least. I never tried a low-fiber high-carb diet, that probably wouldn’t end well) and they never satiated me. Fruits has sugar so they make me hungry, never satiated so I could eat 1 kg apple or banana very easily. It’s small in volume too, nothing compels me to stop (just the sugar now but my past was very sugary).

Now I am curious how much fruit is safe, how frequently {it seems there is an answer later. I probably even read about it before but I am horrible with numbers :frowning: }… An apple is probably fine for the ones not too sensitive to sugar (my body usually dislikes so much sugar though I feel right if I eat fatty protein afterwards) but what about 10 in a day? 3 kg watermelon in 3 sittings? Fortunately not even my SO eats that much fruit but I think he eats them very nearly for every meal and not in the amounts I do. But no one eats fruit like me I suppose :smiley: I can fit 6 different high-sugar fruits into a keto day quite easily.

We don’t drink fruit juice since ages (except once a year, I have a juicer), fruits are easier, nicer (for us, at least, I love the crunch and eating, not drinking in a few seconds) and as it’s very well-known, better for our health as well.

Milk is way too sugary and calorie rich for me (too easy to drink a litter while I only consume 3-10ml cream at a time, I mean it like that) :smiley: Sometimes some fatty raw milk, maybe… 1-2 times a year… That’s tasty. If it’s not raw, it ruins the taste for me. Shops have milk with that horrible UHT flavor and 3.6% fat is the top, I like my dairy fattier than that… Well 3.6% is okay, not ideal but drinkable. Even 2.8% is drinkable but 1.5% is already horrible and never tried the lowest-fat kind. That’s not even milk anymore, just sugar water with some protein…?

Fruit is mostly sugar water, yep. Humans made them so. Some natural, original fruit is like that too but most aren’t. And the only really sugary wild fruit I know here comes in tiny amounts per fruit, one can’t just manage eating a lot in a little time… As I am not desperate, I lose patience after a negligible amount of sugar… But it’s available during winter at least so I never understood why people say fruits are very seasonal… My garden has fresh fruit between June and December but without harvesting, some fruits are there for way longer. Wild fruits are merely not much but they are there for many months.

As they aren’t fatty proteins, I have no chances theoretically but some are better than others. Plums and bananas are able to make me satiated for a short while for some reason. At least it happened in the past, maybe it has conditions. Apples always made me super hungry, even if I was very well satiated before. My SO is the same, never eats fruits far from meals, plain hunger is bearable but the horrible hunger after some fruit is so much worse… (But we get hungry from small meals in general. Except almost pure fat in my case, that doesn’t make me hungry, probably due to the too small insulin response, at least I have no better idea. I even can eat a tiny bite of anything without problems while he can’t. It’s a big meal or nothing. But fruit is the worst.)


#23

I will start with no way I am watching an 1 1/2 hr. video…LOL

but from posts on the board…low carb or low fructose?

I say they go hand in hand in truth. How does one go low carb other than dump the sugars from their menu to ‘be low carb’. Obviously one can manipulate their carb limit to suit them. So if one is say, 20-50g carb you are way more limited than someone holding at around 80-100g which is still in this day and age ‘low carb’ considering the amt of carbs in foods that are eaten daily in people’s lives.

So this boils down to what sugar (which is our carb intake) ‘to eat’ even if lc or should we dump the fructose too from, say, fruit in our lives? from the net: Sometimes called “fruit sugar,” fructose is **a naturally occurring sugar found primarily in fruits (such as apples, dates, figs, pears and prunes), but also in vegetables (such as artichokes, asparagus, mushrooms, onions and red peppers), honey, sugar beets and sugar cane. Pure fructose is produced commercially from corn or sucrose into a crystalline form for use as an ingredient in packaged foods and beverages.

I think eating an orange or bananas is no different than sucking down refined table sugar. To me personally, sugar is sugar is sugar no matter what name ya give it :slight_smile: Then we got the ‘rest of the fruit like the fiber’ and vits/nutrients in it are good for you so it outweighs the sugar content? THAT is a very personal call to everyone in their long term sustainable health eating plan. Some can have some fruit and do well. Some opt for lc fruits like berries and dump the higher sugar fruits. Some dump all fruits and do best.

Real food trumps anything from a packaged manufacturer as we all know. So that can come into play obviously too.

Just some thoughts on it. So it is about how a person adopts their lc plan and how they truly feel about sugar intake and how they react and respond in the end. One has to decide their own critical carb limit load for their life and where they thrive best.


(Tim Cee) #24

I was thinking taking the milk rule home for my kids. I personally drink coffee, water, and beer. One of the reasons the video appealed to me is that I am trying to raise four boys not to inherit my health challenges. One thing young kids have an advantage on is that their bodies are still developing and earlier in the stages of decay. Hopefully, if I get them on the right path now, they can be a bit more relaxed about food in middle age, meaning maybe they’ll tolerate paleo style foods or a daily slice of toast—something I’ll likely never be able to do.


(Tim Cee) #25

I don’t watch. I just listen. I’m driving 8-11 hrs a day. People think truck drivers are mental. Most probably are. I have little else to do between cities but over-analyze everything incorrectly. I try to attenuate that by listening to real experts.


(Tim Cee) #26

I’m starting to suspect that, if a person were to cut out all but incidental fructose, they would be at historically healthy carb levels by default. For example, I was once cashless and was give a box of apples by a shipper in Washington state. For a week I ate nothing but apples. I was never full, but I reached laxative levels of intake—who knew apples can be a laxative! So there is a limit to how much fruit a person can eat without disturbance.

But if we cut out distilled and “manufactured” fructose products, we end up with the diet people were accustomed to before metabolic syndrome launched towards becoming a pandemic. By today’s standards this is probably necessarily moderately low carb because real food doesn’t have the tendency to seduce into uncontrollable chronic over-eating that a high fructose diet does. A moderately low carb healthy meat rich diet is probably healthy for most people who haven’t already sustained a metabolic injury. ??? And yet, others have observed that a diet rich in whole grains still is a problem for people.

Just thinking out loud.


#27

Oh good for them, I often think what would have happened if I know about low-carb earlier…
I still can handle even the occasional 20 “servings” of sweets let alone starches so that part is fine (as it doesn’t mean I don’t try to minimize my carbs especially quick and very especially added sugars) but it would have been so much better and easier to have a better woe all my life. It’s great if someone learns about a better woe as a kid, see OPTIONS at least. I think many of us had little idea about low-carb as kids or young adults and isn’t it sad?


(Take time to smell the bacon) #28

If by “fructose” you are including sucrose (which is a glucose molecule bonded to a fructose molecule), then I suspect you are right. The diabetes epidemic didn’t begin until about 20 years after cheap, industrially-refined sugar hit the market, and the candy and soda industries started to gear up. Until that point, sugar was so expensive that gout and diabetes were diseases of the rich. I believe it was Weston Price who observed that the first effect of the change in diet is dental caries, followed by gout and diabetes, then cardiovascular problems, and then obesity (the obesity epidemic didn’t begin until after the U.S. dietary guidelines were promulgated, but heart disease had begun to be a great concern forty or so years earlier).

But refined flour is clearly part of the problem, as well, given its effect on the tribal populations of the U.S., once they were displaced and came to rely on government handouts. And others would argue that the industrial seed oils played a role in causing the so-called “diseases of civilisation,” as well.


(Tim Cee) #29

Yep, I was including sucrose.


#30

Although some of the studies were only 10 days, Dr. Lustig, et al were able to drastically reduce fatty liver in kids by replacing fructose calories with starch calories. I’m not advocating this as the solution, but it clearly can help.


(Butter Withaspoon) #31

I know a child who’s a total sugar addict. If you observe the behaviours over a long period you can see how motivated she is to get lots of sweet things and how she mentally crashes after the effect wears off. If I had more influence I would tackle sugar and sweetness as a matter of urgency, and wait to see if a starch issue remains. It’s actually scary :frowning: I’ll have to think of a way to offer some confronting information :woman_shrugging:


#32

Scary! I didn’t even know such thing exists as I don’t have such an effect to wear off…
Poor kids. I decided ages ago that if I ever will have a kid, I surely won’t feed poor thing with sugar right away or even a few years later as it’s seemingly normal :frowning: A kid who lives on their good food and never ever met sweets surely won’t even miss it… So why? I don’t understand parents.


#33

To recap the OP’s question, it’s not a question of ‘or’ it should be ‘and’.

Lustig aptly captured the potentially insidious effect of fructose but to demonise it is absurd. As has been highlighted in the discussion, the liver has a capacity (albeit, more limited) to process fructose without adverse effects. And heck, there is even some goodness in fruit.

Sure, if you’re metabolically unhealthy then, to quote the late Charles Poliquin, you should be allowed no more than 3 licks of a dried prune!


(Tim Cee) #34

And if “your” young child is using sugar like a narcotic, “you” need to get licked with a dried prune. (Violence is not the answer)


#35

OK OK No one should be licking or being licked by a dried prune EVER
:scream::clown_face:


(GINA ) #36

I think a good chunk of the problem comes from the fact that sugar and HFCS seem to be in every processed food these days. There was a time when if you ate sugar you knew it- a slice of pie, a cookie, candy- it was a treat and you knew what you were doing. Now we have sugar in foods not commonly perceived as desserts or treats- spaghetti sauce, lunch meat, oatmeal and other breakfast foods, yogurt- the list goes on and on.

It seems hard to imagine to people like us on this board that others don’t turn over the package of the food they are eating or giving their children and recognize it as a problem, but I genuinely don’t think they know/realize/ have the capacity to change.


#37

SO AGREE!

plus pace of life has become manic. Convenience/processed food is that darn convenience to feed 'em all at warp speed and be done…life on this planet is not as it was for sure and I get ya on that post!!


#38

I always knew I haven’t a really good imagination (I have my moments and it depends what is the topic) but now I feel my lackings as I try to imagine what is it like to be licked by a dried prune (isn’t prune already involved being dried? or is redundancy used for emphasis? probably that) - and I just can’t.
[EDIT: Wait… Is it the slang and not the fruit prune…?]

I have nice feelings towards prunes (the not plump plum ones :D) so I don’t get shocked. It’s a prune at least! So many dried fruit has added sugar (it’s dried. fruit. basically sugar in way too high density so they add more sugar… crazy!) but not prunes. It has a lot to begin with but this never stopped food industry from adding sugar.

I can’t wrap my head around adding sugar to canned fruit and jam either except in special, super sour/acidic cases. And the worst recipe I ever saw had jam (not jellied, a softer one, I don’t know if it has another word in English) with enough sugar to make it pretty solid… People are scary if you ask me. They can scare me with their recipes! One would think recipes are nice, mostly harmless things (not eating the result, just reading them) but of course not.

Fortunately there are processed items without sugar but they are truly horribly rare. I saw some shocking things, probably all of us did. When I went low-carb, I pretty much started to avoid all processed items but some came back or never went away completely. I eat super little of those items and can handle the tiny sugar in some of them. My mustard has no sugar, it has erythritol but pickles are impossible to find without sugar or sweetener (the last time I managed was maybe 8 years ago) - and after some on/off carnivore times, I reached the point that I simply can’t eat it without suffering from the overly sweetness. It’s fine as I lost interest anyway. I still don’t feel the sugar in sausages, it’s so very low (and my favorite, the pig farm one probably doesn’t even have any. no proper sausage has any, it’s just some crazy thing in food industry and well, we know sugar have some taste enhancing effect, not like a good sausage need that and if the meat and spices aren’t good, it won’t be good with sugar either anyway) - and the natural sugar in the spices (enough paprika to color the sausage red :D) may mask the sugar flavor anyway. If I get more sensitive, I will stop eating store-bought processed things. I hate all noticeable sugars in my meat.


#39

Prunes: from the net: run from this things, don’t even lick them HA

The dietary fiber present in prunes is responsible for their laxative effect and hence it is one of the best natural medicines to treat constipation. Many researchers have also shown that prunes contain significant amounts of sorbitol, which is a sugar alcohol found in fruits and plants with diuretic, laxative and cathartic property.

There ain’t nothing great about a prune in life truly :face_vomiting::clown_face:


(Tim Cee) #40

@Shinita
To be “licked” is an archaic Americanism in reference to a person, usually a child, who receives correction at the end of a blunt object such as a switch, wooden paddle, or leather belt—essentially a spanking.