Lmhr

(Tim Cee) #1

Hypothesis confirmed: Lipid profile is more sensitive to diet in lean people.

Question: does the ideal carb consumption level change based on body composition?

#2

YUP! Since having body fat in the 30%'s and now a little under 10% I believe my body doesn’t even remotely react the same to them. I’ve also noticed my cholesterol is WAY easier (meaning faster) to manipulate.

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #3

“Ideal” is a loaded term, but I’d say that, whatever it means, it’s much more closely related to insulin-resistance or -sensitivity than it is to body composition.

(Bob M) #4

It’s still sensitive to diet even in the obese, just LDL and HDL don’t go up as much.

And it may be the case that more muscular folk have lower LDL and HDL.

As for carbs, who knows?

(Bob M) #5

As for carbs, this guy is a carnivore:

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https://shawn-baker.com/about/

This guy, another carnivore:

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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPEAhtSZDkTb0rDGrtaSU7A

Granted, both of them got that way while eating a higher carb diet, but they have maintained via carnivore.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #6

The ability to deal with carbs least detrimentally may change with body comp - some folks make this claim. As @PaulL notes, the more likely reason is the degree of insulin resistance/normality. But ‘ideal carb consumption’ = zero. There is no minimum required carb amount nor deficiency disease from lack. That’s says very clearly that carbs are 100% optional. Just like ethanol.

(Tim Cee) #7

The study shows that lean mass hyper-responders can correct their lipids with mild increase in carb.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #8

Or with Lipitor. The question is what else happens as a consequence. If you’re talking about a change from sub-15 grams of carbs per day to 25-30 grams that’s one thing. If you’re talking 50-100 grams or more of carbs that another. The consequences will be very different. I happen to think that ketosis is the natural and most healthy metabolic state for humans to live in. The more consistently we remain in ketosis the better off we are.

#9

It’s a good question. Research on athletic subjects, as it stands, leans towards carbohydrate hypocaloric diets when protein is equated. This is mirrored in ‘real life’ when you look at folks with body composition in mind, e.g. bodybuilders, figure athletes, even weight class athletes, who do not go zero carb (certainly not medium to long term). I am reminded of the late Charles Poliquin, who used to say ‘carbs need to be earned’.

(Tim Cee) #10

So does that mean that lean mass hyper responders don’t need to eat 80-120g carb/day?

(Tim Cee) #11

I’m talking about the study described by Feldman and crew in the podcast. They showed that lmhr subjects could put their lipids normal at 80-120g carb/day

(Tim Cee) #12

Did you check the study?

(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing) #13

While it is true that lean-mass hyper-responders can manipulate their cholesterol levels, the word “correct” implies something about an attitude towards cholesterol levels that is not yet justified by the evidence.

While it is possible that some type of cholesterol level might serve as a marker for cardiovascular risk, there are quite a few studies showing that cholesterol levels correlate inversely with cardiovascular risk, which is sufficient proof that cholesterol cannot possibly be the cause of cardiovascular disease. And, in any case, manipulating a marker does nothing to address the underlying condition. As Dr. Robert Lustig likes to say, “Giving a patient with a brain tumour an aspirin may take away the headache, but it leaves the tumour untreated.”

The key word in your question is “need.” And the answer is, no, they do not need carbohydrate at all. The point is simply that they are able to manipulate their cholesterol levels as desired. If you believe that to be a good thing or not, it still doesn’t imply that they need carbohydrate. Dave, in fact, has issued a challenge to show that any lean-mass hyper-responder with high cholesterol levels has ever been diagnosed with cardiovascular disease, though I don’t know whether anyone has taken him up on it.

(Tim Cee) #14

So as Richard speculates in todays podcast, the ongoing study might show that LMHR subjects improve their vascular plaque volume in the midst of very high LDL. That would show with finality that it isn’t the firemen lighting the fires.

(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.) #15

I respect Dave Feldman. A funny anecdote:

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