Liver produces glucose

#1

I’ve been keto (again) for about 17 months. My blood sugar is still too high (waking up it’s likely to be 130s mg/dL) and I eat very little carbs. I do watch for carb creep, but I count NET carbs not total. NET carbs are 10 to 15. My blood sugar slowly rises throughout the morning until I eat and then it will actually lower. I have gotten a few CGM, but they are expensive since my insurance only pays a portion. My BS will dip below 100 two to three times at night, but by morning, it’s 120s and up. Just taking a shower raises my BS by 20 or more. My ketones are there but low (usually .3), and weight loss is incredibly slow (most months I don’t lose anything, some months I go back up a pound or two).

How long can the liver produce glucose? Indefinitely? (sure is feeling that way)
I’ve researched constantly trying to find ways to lower my blood sugar. I’ve even considered the ketone drinks for the last few days. Is there anything that would tell my liver there is no need for gluose?

#2

It always will, we die without glucose. Make sure your net carbs are accurate, but either way 130’s isn’t super high, not great but not problem level either. Try Dihydroberberine before meals and before bed. Used to knock my numbers down pretty descent when that’s all I used. I still use it, but also on Semaglutide so they’re real low now, can’t tell what’s doing what anymore or I’d skip it and give an example.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #3

It’s the liver’s job to produce the small amount of glucose the body actually needs, when we stop eating it (i.e., carbohydrate). You can’t live without some amount of glucose circulating in your body.

If your liver appears to be making more glucose than you think it should, try eating some extra fat for a while (not a lot, but say, two extra pats of butter with each meal. There is a hypothesis that the liver makes extra glucose when we don’t make enough fat for it to make enough ketones. If you are skimping on calories, try eating to satiety, instead.

Also, be aware that some keto doctors don’t care nearly so much about your actual glucose level, as long as it’s staying within a narrow range. It’s the wild swings up and down that are the problem.

#4

I had some so I took it last night and will take it again tonight. I also have cinnamon, which I’ve been taking, and I believe it’s helped somewhat. I’ll test my numbers again soon to see if that has helped.

#5

For the last 3 months, I have been eating 800 calories for 3 days of the week (Mon/Wed/Fri) via doctor’s advice and up to 2,000 calories the other 4 days. The doctor believes in keto, but also some calorie restriction/fasting.

#6

I feel like (for the last year that I’ve been testing blood sugar and ketones) that my blood sugar is never low enough (especially for being low carb). My goal has been to test foods to see if there are things I should rule out, but that’s difficult when my blood sugar is 130-something when I haven’t even ate.

I have not worn the CGMs consistently because of cost, but I have the keto mojo as well.

#7

I had to move onto carnivore this a year, to control my BGL and it is now in the normal range. If you have severe insulin resistance/type 2 diabetes, keto isn’t sometimes enough to drop your blood glucose and insulin enough to heal your metabolism.

I would be very cautious about following a doctors advice about diet, unless they were quite exceptional. I have been trying for about 17 years since round 96-7…and have only found one doctor in all that time who was informed about metabolism and diet enough to trust his advice. He advised carnivore for me…and I am very grateful to him, cause it is helping me hugely.

Best wishes and don’t give up, you will find what works if you keep on trying! :smiley:

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #8

Eating short rations gives your body the impression there’s a famine going on, which means it’s going to hang on to its resources. In the first stages of famine, the body tries to protect itself by breaking down muscle (and converting the amino acids into glucose) and hanging on to fat. When the fat deposits start to go, death by starvation is not far behind.

Actual fasting, which means not eating anything at all, has a better effect on the human metabolism. Follow the advice of Dr. Jason Fung, the fasting guru: “When you fast, fast [i.e., eat nothing]; when you eat, feast [i.e., satisfy your hunger]!” The “eat less, move more” approach to fat loss might work temporarily, but over the long term it can have a disastrous effect on the body. Take a look at Kevin Hall’s follow-up study of “Biggest Loser” contestants, whose metabolisms were permanently damaged by their appearance on the show.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #9

“BGL”? Is this something we should add to our list of acronyms and abbreviations?

#10

She was/is advising a shorter eating window on the low cal days and a 12 hour eating window on the high cal days. Since my calories were set to 800 calories, I was just eating once a day (at least 800 calories). So, I wasn’t eating until later, but the amount was not always enough to satisfy. My blood glucose was also not going down the whole day, but would go down a bit after eating.

With that said, I have taken the berbine the last 2 nights, have lost weight both days (pretty sure it’s mostly inflamation with the amount I’ve been going to the bathroom). I’m not going to restrict calories, but rather eat until satisfied. I’m beginning to think that berbine was the missing link so to speak. I know that controlling my blood sugar and keeping my ketones up is the key to getting where I want to be, so I am watching that more than the weight loss.

Blood gluose this morning upon waking was 105. (I was thrilled!) Ketones: .6. A couple hours later, blood glucose was 93 and ketones still .6. I’m so pleased with this!

#11

Heard and understand. I’ve never really found a doctor that would listen AND could understand. I have had 1 doctor that did listen, but just supported my decisions as long as I was continuing to lose weight. lol This “keto adventure” has been over many years (with too long of a break in between) and 3 different states.

#12

Cool, give it a couple days, and if it’s Dihydroberberine that’ll pretty much be what it can do for you, but if it’s Berberine HCL, the results will be a little less. Definitely report back!

#13

Whenever Doctor shopping, DO’s are usually the best (if you can get one and they’re not full) and then Functional MD’s (which basically practice like DO’s). Another thing I learned with my Doc, who is functional / integrative, is that in India (she’s Indian) their MD’s are like DO’s. They don’t just play the symptom + med = fixed game that they do here.

#14

What I had on hand was Berberine Plus (Berberine HCI) 1200 mg.

When I searched for Dihydroberberine, this came up in a search (and I already had it so…) But, I’ll keep looking to make sure I get the Dihydroberberine so I can compare.

I’ll definitely report back.

#15

Ya, that was just picking out the Berberine in the search. If it doesn’t specifically say Dihydroberberine on the label (or GlucoVantage) it’s HCL. Can’t wait! My results weren’t “drastic”, but very noticeable between the two.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #16

Yeah, that puts your body in famine mode. You’ll do better by either fasting or else eating to satiety. If you are still fairly new to keto, then perhaps fasting isn’t for you, yet. We advise people to get used to curtailing carbs and get fat-adapted first, then, when they start forgetting to eat, because they just aren’t hungry, that’s a good time to see if fasting works.

I’m glad the berberine is helping.

#17

Blood glucose level.

#18

Reporting back after trying Dihydroberberine a few days. It feels like the berberine itself was slightly more effective than the Dihydroberberine. Morning fasting glucose (pretty soon after waking was 94 to 105 on 1200mg berberine HCI taken at bedtime vs 102 to 115 with 200mg of Dihydroberberine also taken at bedtime. (This is definitely short data, just a few days on each.) Either way, I’m much happier with my waking blood glucose levels now, and my ketones are generally higher than before too (but not extreme). I would sit at about .3, and the lowest I’ve been lately has been .4 on one day, with it being at least .5 and up to .8 the rest of the time.

My weight loss is not cooperating (not surprising). It went down at first but then went up nearly 4 pounds. But it has gone back down a pound this morning. I don’t usually weigh every day, but I wanted to watch it closer for now.

The dosage amounts, could that be a factor? I took just one “serving size” for each one, but the mg’s are vastly different. How much berberine is it safe to take in a day? Is it safe to take one at night and the other during the day? I was thinking of taking the Dihydroberberine for during the day (first meal) and the berberine at night. My issue with gluose is overnight and up until my first meal (usually 11am to 2pm).

#19

PS I appreciate all the feedback and information so much. I’ve been searching for just over a year (and 2 doctors) to get my blood glucose levels sorted out.

#20

Forgot to test my BS this morning, but it has still been down between 95 to 105 in the mornings. I’m very thrilled by this. And I know the scales/weighing isn’t the end all/be all, but I’m anxiously waiting for “One-derland.” Well this morning, I weighed 200 even. Almost there!