Less sleep on Keto, is there science on this?

science
(Laura) #1

Is there science on whether we might need less sleep when in ketosis? I know it will vary. But I do want some guidance on what’s happening. I’d like to stop using herbal sleep aids if the sleep loss isn’t too detrimental.

I’m about 6 weeks into keto, and typically sleeping 6 hours instead of the 8 I always clearly needed. It’s debatable whether this is enough for me. I am often very tired all day— BUT that might just be on the days after I tried sleep remedies (melatonin, valerian, THC, GABA, l-tryptophan, et c). Maybe I am groggy from those. When I do wake now, with or without the sleep aids, my eyes are tired and can’t stand light-- a sign I didn’t get enough sleep. But, about half the time, I’ll still at least feel better during the day than if I’d gotten only 6 hours’ sleep before keto.

I do take magnesium now at night (“Magwell”) and a “cortisol manager” (l-theanine, magnolia bark, phosphatidylserine) that I think is helpful. I doubt those will make me groggy.

Morning coffee doesn’t affect my sleep, I’ve done lots of research and experimenting on that in the past. I once read that some people metabolize caffeine faster and if so, I think I’m one of those. Besides, I don’t have caffeine after early morning.

I also tend to eat ALL the time when I am tired. I almost can’t help it (when tired). If not for being tired, I think keto would allow me to do three good meals a day and otherwise get on with my life, like I want. I’m a busy working single parent, so I can’t usually nap.

I have stopped trying to go back to sleep when I wake at 3 a.m. Because if it’s psychological insomnia, I find that ignoring it helps-- like when a toddler cusses.

My hope is that I can power through and this sleep issue will right itself. But being tired is getting in the way of eating keto. It feels like a slog.

Sleep aids are such a gamble for me: It seems everything that works also makes me tired all the next day. And most just help with falling asleep (which I don’t need)-- not sleeping longer. Should I take the plunge and ditch all sleep aids, or will I make it worse?

I find science helpful but am not a good researcher. Has someone looked into this?

(Mark Rhodes) #2

Not a peer reviewed paper but a good place to start: Ketogenic Diets and Sleep Part I: current misunderstandings

https://www.mostly-fat.com/mostly-fat/2021/04/ketogenic-diets-and-sleep-part-i-current-misunderstandings/

#3

My advice is to stop taking biologically active molecules such as melatonin, GABA, THC, herbs, etc… because it’s like taking testosterone… There’s a disruption in Endogenous production and then Endogenous production decreases.

Tryptophan supplement made from fermentation is safe to take up to 250mg per day during the day. Life choice brand in Canada and Life extension in the USA are fermented. Cheap tryptophan supplements cause serotonin syndrome.

Jarrow formulas methyl B12 1000mcg resets circadian rhythm and increases melatonin. 2000mcg before bed will place us to sleep while 1000mcg will keep us awake. Vitamin B12 contains adenosine on its to tail. Caffeine mimics adenosine.

This isn’t the answer that you seek but it’s the closest you’ll get at the moment that mimics the natural way.

(Chris Leader) #4

Quick tips for good sleep on Keto
Based on what you just learned, here are some quick tips for successful sleep on a keto diet:

  • When you start a ketogenic diet, allow two to four weeks to adjust to keto and break your carbohydrate addiction. (To confirm that you are in ketosis, measure your ketones).
  • At night, minimize blue light from phones, tablets, TVs and computers to promote optimal levels of melatonin, your sleep hormone.
  • Increase your salt intake to avoid low sodium levels and optimize your antidiuretic hormone (ADH). (ADH helps you sleep through the night without having to pee).
  • Consider potassium and magnesium supplements to correct electrolyte imbalances. Magnesium in particular helps counteract stress hormones, such as cortisol, so often deregulated in keto beginners.
  • Consider GABA or melatonin supplements as temporary sleep aids.
(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #5

Anecdotes on the forum support this notion. When I joined the forums in 2017, there were many, many threads about people waking up much earlier, and finding themselves doing housework, reorganising the closets, and weeding the garden, because they couldn’t get back to sleep. This is not everyone’s experience, of course, but it’s common enough. You might find it of comfort, however, to know that the interference with sleep tends to subside over time, at least from the posts I remember.

The confounding issue is that expert opinions on how much sleep we “need” are confusing, not necessarily based on valid science, and subject to whether the researcher is employed by a company with a product to sell. If you are waking up feeling the need for more sleep, that’s one thing, but if you are simply waking up earlier, you don’t necessarily have a problem.

As others have suggested, try doing without all the products for a while, and note how your sleep is without them. If you eventually find yourself waking refreshed, than the shorter duration of your sleep is not a problem. If the reverse, then you can start testing products one by one to see which ones help you, and which do not. In the meantime, keep calm and keto on.

(Edith) #6

I just made a post a few minutes about on the All Animal August thread about my dealings with salt and how I think increasing my salt supplementation may be helping improve my sleep. I have no scientific papers to link to, but I had heard on a podcast that if sodium levels drop too low during the night, it can cause a stress response and release cortisol. I think that may have been happening with me.

I’m not sure how to include a link to my post, sorry,

(Mark Rhodes) #7

Just listened to this podcast. About halfway through they discuss sleep. Amber had just taken a grad course class and has some pertinent information. However it cannot be teased out to apply to just carnivore…yet

#8

simple healing and change everyone will walk thru but we also do not ‘live our same lives’ on work and stress and all in with what we deal with in our lives…then add 6 weeks. normal body adaption changes can easily effect sleep so that will wonk up your sleep as you adapt/detox/heal and repair and ‘reset’ and change so…you are fine.

we ALL mostly had to get thru ‘the sleep troubles’ and to me point blank it is a normal change…I had it all from darn near no sleep, to up pee’ing thru the night and to just restless and all those changes, I walked all of it but TIME ON PLAN to change works and is the final change you require…just hang in there :slight_smile: :sunny:

do what you can. Nap if you can. Rest and chill. Just work thru the little things that make your sleep and tiredness more doable at all times thru ‘real change’ and don’t add in all those useless supplements…those do more harm than good cause it is just ‘adaption phase’ and we deal.

go strong and get thru to ‘that other side’ and :wink: make it work for you when you can and not against you…change makes things uncomfortable, healing the body can be uncomfortable but the benefits are huge when we get thru them!

(Shelly C) #9

Brilliant indeed. The human body harbors experiment after experiment for us to dabble with and the results are incredible!