Lean bulk for keto veggie?

#1

Hey everyone. I posted a little while ago about my very low energy levels when keeping carbs around 50g and it was suggested by a few of you to drop my carbs down to below 20g. For the last few weeks I’ve been concentrating on this lower level and to be fair I’m feeling much better… my mood is much happier and I do have a little more energy, not an abundance but I’m definitely finishing my working day with more steam than previously!
The problem is, I’ve dropped another 2kg which now puts my BMI at 17.9.
I will be applying for a job in September which requires a fitness test, they will be checking my measurements, BMI etc and I will need to do a strength test also.
I already strength train 4-5 times a week but have seen very little gains. Yes I am more toned but I haven’t made the progress I would have liked given the effort I’ve put in the last few months!

I’ve been thinking of increasing some carbs again, 1 because I miss things like weetabix and whole grain bread, 2 because I’ve read about targeted keto and carbs being necessary to build muscle. The thing is I don’t want to ruin the work I’ve done getting my energy back over the last few weeks!
I know I’ll need more protein but I don’t eat meat so my protein sources are limited to protein shakes and fish. I don’t eat Quorn as I feel it’s not a ‘real’ food and is highly processed however I know that would be a very good source of protein.
What are people’s thoughts/ experiences on gaining lean muscle on keto? I’ve watched countless you tube videos about it but there seems to be so much conflicting advice and different methods I just don’t know where to start. I also know I need to eat more but I have a low appetite as it is, I average around 1900 calories a day, sometimes as low as 1300 which for my very active lifestyle I know is not enough!
Any tips and advice for muscle gain for veggie keto very much appreciated!

#2

Caring about muscle and strength gains and being a veggie aren’t a good match. Without the meat you’re putting yourself at a pretty descent disadvantage. If you’re not tracking your food intake you need to start. Use something like Cronometer so you get both the macro and a detailed micro nutrient breakdown as it’s much easier for you to go micronutriet deficient than someone who eats meat. You can’t just randomly have 600 cals missing from your diet, not when muscle and strength are on the table.

If you eat fish, you eat meat, don’t kid yourself. So if it’s only an red meat thing, are you against dairy based protein sources? Because those are much cheaper and WAY better tasting then the plant based ones. I’ve tried a ton of plant based ones when I was trying to see what diary being removed did for me (nothing) and they are TERRIBLE! Plus, extremely overpriced. You’re going to have to really be on your stuff. Make SURE you get in your protein! Make sure it’s enough to support current and build based on your current LBM.

#3

Lol, I should have worded it ‘the only meat I eat is fish’! I do eat dairy so I can definitely look into those sources. I’ve been tracking my food for months, I use My Fitness Pal and am very accurate with what I put in… weighing food etc.
I dont always have the best appetite hence some days being very low calorie, it’s not something I do on purpose I’m just not a big ‘foodie’ and if it hungry, I won’t eat! I realise things are going to need to change for me to increase muscle and get healthy though, I just don’t know how!

#4

I don’t see the problem, even without fish it should be very easy to eat enough protein or is it just me? :smiley: I almost always got a nice amount of protein from eggs alone especially on keto but I always ate some cheese too. Now I have meat too, right now mostly fish, carefully as protein adds up like crazy… It must be different with a, say, 150g protein need but I went over it many times, accidentally and could do it every day.

Eating your food may be tricky if your hunger and appetite very low (and you can’t eat without them. people often have such strange limitations :)). Maybe try different, more tempting dishes, different timing (if I add one more meal, I eat much more. if I wait until a serious hunger, I can eat much more…etc.)… Try to figure out what satiated you more or less and eat accordingly. I could overeat and feeling fine and not too full at all using much added fat as it doesn’t satiate me well but cream works too, at least for me, it’s highly individual and as I’ve read, fat usually satiates people well, even added fat and cream. But for some of us, the type of fat (or even protein) matters a lot…

1300 kcal is horribly low, I don’t know your stats but as you need bulking, you clearly need to it way, way more somehow, 1900 sounds not much either… Eating below 20g net carbs is usually very good for getting satiated easily and it’s not good for you now but if you feels best there, I would experiment there first. Again, what about eggs? :slight_smile: They are very satiating for some but not THAT much or not at all for others, you get protein, it’s tasty and versatile… Or use various fishes but they are rarely fatty so you need to add calories. Eggs are fatty and I like my dishes with more yolks (of course, someone eats the whites too, one shouldn’t waste precious food).

#5

In that case I’m a fan of Whey Concentrates. They’re the cheaper ones (usually), they taste the best and still have some of the dairy fats in there that you want. When it comes to strength / muscle gain many of your limits become goals. For putting on muscle the typical go-to is 1g/lb of body weight. Yes, body weight not LBM. Calorically make sure you’re eating enough, you can eat at a reasonable deficit if you want to loose a little fat but no more than that. Food is fuel, under fueled people don’t gain muscle mass.

I’ve absolutely noticed a night and day difference in muscle gains since having some more carbs in there. I try to keep them to the respectable ones though. Typically medium speed ones like sweet potatoes, oatmeal, brown rice etc. Pretty much the typical muscle building carbs. In the keto mindset those are all the same as chocolate cake, but the gym says otherwise! On the total calories though, aside from a calculated deficit eat what’s left. Not hungry? Tough! Eat it anyways. You’ll notice very quickly how much changes strength wise when you do. Unfortunately keto and strength training don’t always get along the way people want them to. No shortage of sources saying you build muscle just the same, too bad they were already jacked before keto and now maintaining and pretending that did that while being keto, which is BS. I try for 1g/lb protein bodyweight and my calories change depending on the day. Heavy lifting days I’ll go lower fat and bump up the carbs a little. On rest days I do lowrer carbs and bump up the fat a little. Pretty much a gradual cycling of the two worlds. If I do something like eat Pizza and Fries because the fam goes for that since that’d be a legit carb load I’ll make sure I go textbook strict keto for the next 2 days afterwards. If not you do run the risk of fat some fat storage. Also accept that the scale will reflect some glycogen stores when your carbs are a little higher.

(Bunny) #6

—OMG the poor guy is burning up the skeletal muscle like a forrest fire…glad I’m not him…oooooh!

20 grams of carbs? And no meat? That’s like asking for a heart attack with that kind of lifting?

Scary peeps out their!

#7

Hey, thanks for replying. I do like eggs and try to eat them regularly but I do find them quite sickly so don’t have them every day. I love eating fish but I’ve read that it’s bad to have it daily, so I try to alternate having fish and veggie dishes each day.

As for stats… I’m 5’7’’, female weighing 52kg.

#8

What do you mean? How can I improve… thanks!

#9

I’ve got a whey protein isolate that I have once or twice a day, even with this I’m barely hitting 100g protein but I guess that’s down to my lack of overall food intake. I’m going to research carbs and muscle growth, I think you’re right all those guys on you tube were probably already incredibly well muscled before they started keto!
I guess its all about experimenting!

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #10

Muscle-building requires not only enough protein, but also the right kind of protein. In particular, you need branched-chain amino acids, especially the three essential ones, leucine, iso-leucine, and valine.

You probably also need to increase your energy intake by adding sources of saturated and monounsaturated fatty acids. Though it would require careful planning in orger to get them from an exclusively plant-based diet,