I use Knox unflavored gelatin in my smoothies 2x/day and have noticed the protein is high; about 8-10g/day just in Gelatin. I’m out of ketosis this morning and wondered if I need to count that protein from the gelatin in my protein macro. I wasn’t counting it because I didn’t think it was a complete protein. Anyone have any experience with this? I’m assuming that’s what brought my ketones down because nothing else has changed.
Knox unflavored gelatin
PaulL
(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing)
#3
As long as you are keeping your carbohydrate intake low, you do not need to worry about your protein intake, except to make sure you are getting enough. It used to be hypothesized that excess protein would be turned into glucose by the liver, in a process known as gluconeogenesis. This notion has now been shown to be false. The liver makes only the amount of glucose required by the cells that must have it; the body does other things with excess protein.
Your ketone level is going to fluctuate throughout the day. In a low-carbohydrate situation, glucagon will stimulate ketogenesis, and it will continue as long as the insulin-glucagon ratio remains low. As insulin increases, however, it puts the brakes on ketogenesis, which is one of the reasons we want to eat in such a way as to keep insulin as low as possible for as much of the day as possible.
amwassil
(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.)
#4
Here you go:
That said. You’re eating enough to save a bundle of money if you buy plain, unflavoured gelatin in the bulk bin rather than purchase Knox. I know Knox is packaged in neat 14gr packets, but it’s not worth 10x the price for that small convenience. When you eventually eat as much of it as I do, you’ll really appreciate that savings! You own a food scale, yes? 
By the way, gelatin is a complete protein and an excellent source.
KidKeto
(Cristian Lopez)
#5
Holy shiteza me too!! I consume 2 heb packets every day in either a thickener for my
stevia sweetened sugar free ketchup, my mug cakes I eat before fasting, homemade sugar free jello,or in avocado chocolate shakes.
SporkyDonkey
#7
The science says things are more complicated than that, and as has been seen on this very forum, “too much” protein does reliably kick many people out of ketosis. Amber O’Hearn did an excellent interview on Primal Edge Health about the science on how, when, and why you can have “too much” protein.
Ashlee
(Kitty)
#12
How much do you eat? I mean, how many grams of protein from gelatin do you eat in a day?
amwassil
(Michael - When reality fails to meet expectations, the problem is not reality.)
#13
@Ashlee 12-16 grams daily (90 grams total protein daily), although I don’t get it in every day. It’s another ingredient in my single bowl meals. It’s tasteless, so mixes with pretty much anything. I started out purchasing Knox but soon after discoverd it in the bulk bin at a fraction of the cost.
carolT
#14
I’ll see your Bikman, and raise you a Feldman. The traditional thinking on glucagon is based largely on studies not done with people in ketosis who have metabolic syndrome. Don’t worry though, they plan to do more testing on a larger population base.
TL;DW
Those people with elevated glucagon can react differently than expected.
See also
carolT
#15
CMJ is recommending collagen in a non-keto context and is not talking about the hormonal response to the glycine, just that it is useful.
carolT
#16
Just because it isn’t complete (meaning it lacks one or more of the essential amino acids) doesn’t mean it can’t become complete when eaten with other foods. For example, many vegans and vegetarians use this strategy to combine rice and beans in order to get a complete protein profile in their day.
Note: this also applies to the protein in pork rinds, even though the package says not a significant source of protein. That is a legal disclaimer so the general public won’t treat them as a complete protein source.
PaulL
(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing)
#17
Is there any? Seriously, I wasn’t aware of glucagon until one of Bikman’s lectures introduced me to it. Till then, as far as I knew, it was all about insulin. The much greater emphasis that Bikman gives to glucagon has been a revelation.
Of course, I’m still in shock from Kendrick’s post about how mice that can’t produce glucagon never become diabetic, even if they can’t produce insulin, either, and they seem to manage their serum glucose quite well even without insulin. I suspect there may be far more to the story than we have yet uncovered. I also suspect that we will have to do all the research over again on a ketogenic population to discover what the real normal actually is.
PaulL
(Bacon is a many-splendoured thing)
#18
It’s worth remembering that protein per se is not important, it’s the amino-acid profile of the food we eat that matters—as you so rightly point out, Carol. As I see it, there are two issues: (a) getting enough nitrogen to replace the inevitable on-going loss from the de-amination of amino acids, and (b) getting all the essential amino acids that we can’t manufacture for ourselves.
carolT
#19
Yes, “protein” is an umbrella term for many different amino acids.
BACKGROUND: The metabolic effects of dietary protein are complex. In persons with type 2 diabetes, protein ingestion results in little or no increase in plasma glucose concentrations but a stimulation of insulin and glucagon secretion. Furthermore, when protein is ingested with glucose, a synergistic effect on insulin secretion is observed. The most potent protein is gelatin, which consists of 30% glycine residues.
CONCLUSION:
The data are compatible with the hypothesis that oral glycine stimulates the secretion of a gut hormone that potentiates the effect of insulin on glucose removal from the circulation. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12450897
carolT
#20
By “traditional” I guess I mean that most of the studies Bikman uses are old. But it’s all new to us. Also Amber had several good reads about it a few years ago… http://www.ketotic.org/search?q=glucagon
Note: she updates newer articles to reflect any changes in thinking.