Killing animals

(Marius the butter craving dude) #1

Hi all, this is going to be a long post and the subject I have been aching to talk about may be emotional and complex.

Every summer I would spend it, 3 months, at my grandparents in the village. They do not have a farm as it is understood in the English speaking world, but they have a large garden with vegetables and another with free rooming chicken, they have a pig pen and they feed them a combination of grains, different plants and leftovers from our meals (including meats), they had a cow that would go with the heard in the morning in the field and come back at night and be milked (there was a headsmen who practically took care of the entire village’s cows). And maybe some geese who were all day wondering through the fields and village and they would know to come back home at night on their own. And this is what every family had and still has (but it is fading away, I will talk more about this).

Going back to the topic of killing animals… I watched a lot of anti vegan videos, and at least in the English speaking world I see that people are shocked through factory farming videos into veganism, and they are totally disconnected from the act of killing an animal. All my childhood I knew and saw how my parents and grandparents killed the chicken and pig I have on my plate, I helped them milk the cow.

People in the west may say I have been raised a killer…
Well I want to share a childhood story: I had this favorite young chicken with gray and white feathers, and I would chase it and catch it and cuddle it. And I was a child… as I played with it a accidentally broke it’s leg. I felt sorry for it… I fed him extra tat day for him to recover faster. The next day I did not see him in the yard. And as I eat my chicken I asked grandma where is my favorite chicken… she told me he is in my plate, she put it out of his pain. I was shocked and stopped eating. I bet many of you think that I threw out the meat I eat and I never eat meat again… No !! The next second I realized something, I should never play and get attached to food, I resumed eating my favorite chicken and I never played with animals after that.
Now many of you may think that I am cold person twords animal… No I still like animals, but not those that I know are food, I am shocked when I see factory farming or any form of cruelty against animals for food; because it is unnecessary.
This is becoming to long… Since going more carnivore I have been thinking of killing my own food, right now we still get chicken from my grandparents and just last week I have helped them butcher some chicken… but I have never actually did the killing myself. I say I want this because I think it is necessary to man up regarding our food. Of course you should be kind and gentle twords animals for food, but also you should not let yourself be ignorant about the way food is brought to your table.
Why is the west in a state in witch children grow ignorant of this part of life and end up having a distorted and hypocritical view on the act of killing animals ? I was not encouraged or denied the opportunity to see the killing of animals by my parents, parents today shield their kids from way to much. I was left to make my own conclusions about what I saw.

(Libby) #2

Yep, it’s pretty hypocritical to enjoy eating meat and not understand an animal died for it.

I’m headed towards clearing up that inconsistency in a year or so.

The idea that if it is covered in plastic wrap that it wasn’t an animal is weird.

Even vegetables that aren’t covered with plastic film and presented at the supermarket makes some North Americans squeamish. Don’t even get me started on what it takes to keep the ground fertile for those vegetables!

(Full Metal KETO AF) #3

Yogy, this has been in my mind for years. I have never killed any animals other than fish. But it always bothered me the way the majority of us disconnect from food sources. For example in English we have completely different names in most cases for animals and their meat.

Cow/steer =beef
Pig = pork
Birds = poultry (although birds are generally named, duck chicken turkey goose)
Lamb/sheep = mutton
Deer = venison

There real disconnect is the meat in styrofoam containers already cut into servings or frozen with all the marinades, or breading done so handling isn’t necessary. There’s an unbelievable amount of people in America who have issues touching raw meats or working with them to prepare a recipe. It’s a total denial of where our food comes from. And @LibbyL is absolutely correct about vegans conveniently overlooking the fact that dead animals and their products cannot be removed from their eating style and the damages their choices cause to the environment, farming is the number 1 cause of deforestation and land degradation there is. It actually killls the land. Life for some has always meant death for others, this is not removable from life on our planet. :cowboy_hat_face:

(Marius the butter craving dude) #4

When I was a kid and we killed the pig, there is this tradition to put the kids on the pig right before they open the body. I never thought what it meant. But I guess it symbolises the reason it was killed… for the children. Anyway my job as a kid was to get the big cuts of meat from the carcas to the kitchen where the women do the fine cutting.
Itis shocking that in Us adults can not handle raw meat…

(Sam) #5

I like Pig Butts, and I cannot lie …

(Wendy) #6

The subject of how we get the food to the table has always been a topic of conversation. When I was a kid we had a little farm . Goats , chickens, Angus cows. The goats were used for their milk. Chickens were used for eggs,and meat. And the Angus, 1 in particular, my sister and brother and I used to feed and enjoy her company. When she was butchered, we wouldnt eat her meat. So our interaction to the cattle was discouraged after that. As an adult, my husband and myself enjoy filling our freezer with organic, natural meats and fish. While helping control population of wild game. It’s nice to eat meat that you know where they have come from. And know, No antibiotics or steroids have been used. On a personal note, you have no connection to the animal. And alot of times, if they are up in age, your doing them a favor.
I hope that our Freedom, and right to be able to hunt,and fish will always be an option for us. I also realize it’s not the choice for everyone.
But for us, we have always enjoyed outdoor activities,of all kinds.

(You've tried everything else; why not try bacon?) #7

My mother’s people are farmers, so I learned early on where food comes from. I’d probably make a mess trying to butcher a steer, but at least I’ve seen the process. The American native tribes used to have ceremonies to thank the animal for giving up its live to nourish them, and it might be a good idea to bring that custom back. One of my mother’s sisters married a man who is part Delaware, and my uncle’s father was very big on only hunting for food, never taking a shot unless you could do it cleanly, killing humanely, and respecting the animal’s sacrifice.

That uncle kept dairy cows for many years, and they also had a bull for whom my cousins had great affection. The bull died in an accident, so the renderer came and butchered the carcass. It was interesting to see that my cousins, though they had no trouble with the idea that someone was going to eat that meat, just couldn’t bring themselves to eat it, because they had loved the animal so much. I believe in the end my aunt gave away the meat to someone else. It’s a complex relationship we have with food, and needs to be better acknowledged.

(Susan) #8

That bull’s meat would not have been as good as a castrated bull’s meat because of the testosterone in it anyway.

I have had various friends over the years that have been farmers; they told me this. The one family raised Veal and Beef Cattle, and they told me they had to get the males castrated when they were really young for this reason. They always kept one bull for impregnating the females. They did tell me when the Head bull would die, that the meat was not the greatest, too gamey.

If you go hunting and kill a wild male animal in nature, the meat has that same gaminess to it. Another friend’s husband killed a bear. They were out hunting deer, but the bear was a danger to them, so they killed it, not hunting bear per se, but the end result was they killed him, and got the meat done up at a local abattoir and gave us some. The bear steaks were not bad at all, the ground bear meat was more gamey tasting, but I used it anyway. We really were happy and appreciated that they even thought of us and gave us some, of course =).

When we lived up North, we used to buy whole pigs that were slaughtered and bagged up in the pink butcher’s paper, with string around (marked on outside what it was) and half a cow from another farmer, wrapped up the same way. It was all good meat, and not fed any antibiotics, healthy meat.

We moved back to this city 21 years ago, and we found a beef cattle farmer and were buying half from them for many years, and they would deliver it for us to the house (so kind of them, we were friends, we have just lost contact since we stopped buying is all). They would bring us some chickens they were selling too, and eggs, all very farm fresh and awesome.

#9

I grew up around Detroit, and didn’t quite have a handle on beef coming from a cow, or drumsticks from a chicken, etc. I just ate what I was fed and didn’t think much about it. But, I had an uncle who lived north of us, who hunted and butchered deer/venison. He had been a chef for years, then retired. When we’d visit, he teach us about bee keeping, hunting, preserving, etc. He taught me how to cook venison properly when I was a youngster. Not completely understanding what venison was when I was a young, he told me to think of “Bambi”. I was like, “Oh. Okay. Got it. We’re cooking a cartoon animal.” He thought that was hilarious. Up until a few years before he died, he’d send wrapped up, cold packages with my parents to bring to me at college, labeled “Bambi Burgers for Andrea”. I learned from him not only how to prep and cook, but also to respect the animals and the purpose they serve. He was so dear to me, and I’ll never forget those lessons.

Fastforward a decade, and I got married. Ended up moving further north 18 years ago, and started raising grass fed beef cattle. I’ve killed, gutted, skinned and quartered 2 of them. (Now we take them to a butcher - live, and know how they handle it - humanely.) Can’t count how many deer I’ve done, and even more chickens and turkeys. Not sure how my thinking evolved on this, and I have no problem doing the deed - might have been from the excessive amount of reading I’ve done on raising animals for food, and butchering properly. It’s just all very matter of fact. We respect the animals, treat them well, care for them, and when we need meat, we do it or have it done- humanely.
If we name the cattle, it’s usually something of a joke - like “Meatball” or “Sir Loin”…we don’t play with our food, and get too attached to it. (The females are generally safe from this demise, unless they develop an affection for escaping and causing mayhem. I want that out of the gene pool.)

My kids are super-respectful of the animals, and very conscious of wasting anything animal-related. They’ve watched the cows birth calves, raised chickens and turkeys from babies, bottle fed abandoned calves, and been fishing since they were knee high to a grasshopper. They’ve made the hay that the cattle eat, put up fencing to protect from wolves, and built coops for the chickens, and sold the eggs. So glad my little humans have the respect and understanding now that I learned later in life.

(Susan) #10

That is awesome, and I love how you called them little humans, very cute. Of course they are! Just the wording is adorable.

(PSackmann) #11

I’ve thought about this, I don’t think I could eat an animal I had raised, but I could have it packaged for someone else and swap. Our current plan is bees and chickens, and reaching out to our local neighbors for the rest. I’ve always been a believer in knowing where food comes from, at least in a general way. My father was a butcher and then a meat rep for NZ Lamb, so I grew up with stories of packing houses and such. Just don’t want to eat one I’ve raised.
I remember having a conversation with my best friend about making mayonnaise. She was shocked, “mayonnaise comes in the grocery store”. She couldn’t comprehend that any sauce on the shelves can be made at home, same can be said for any meat cut.

(Kirk Wolak) #12

So, there is a cycle to life, right?
We exist for various reasons… Some animals exist to be fed on.
There are more chickens alive today, because it is a food staple. Very unlikely that it will go extinct!

Have we been perfect? No! We harvested too many fish eggs, and lost populations of fish so we could have caviar. We have started “farming” fish and contamination builds up. Some farms are pretty horrible places.

But it does not have to be this way, and as education spreads, like Allan Savory, who describes some incredible ways to get 3-5 times the cattle on the same land. And pushing the chickens in after the cattle is moved. Use cow manure to breed life back into the soil.

I truly believe that we are on the cusp of being able to do even better, and awareness is causing many places to change. Follow the story of Temple Grandin on Amazon Prime. These things matter, and little by little, we will do better.

Just like getting US to change our WOL… We cannot expect industry to change overnight. The old ways must be allowed to die off, while we invest and support the new ways.

For the record. I simply prefer grain finished beef, and the extra fat in it. Maybe it will change over time. But I don’t mind supporting grass finishing.

(Libby) #13

Joel Salatin has written books/lectures on the subject of how to build up top soil through proper grazing technique. He uses chickens after the cows, too. I learned from one of his books that the way to build top soil is to let the grass grow tall enough to need to grow big roots, and then send in the cows to mow it down. When the grass is short, it doesn’t need all the roots it grew so they perish and turn into top soil. Once the cows are moved and the grass is allowed to grow, it begins to make more roots. Every year the topsoil will get deeper and deeper. Which is why the Great Plains in the middle of the US had such fantastic topsoil-- the gazillion buffalo that were there were mob grazing and moving on. But then the farmers moved in, deep tilling began and … the Dust Bowl.

So I have a defense for refusing to mow every other day like some of my neighbors do. This ain’t a golf course. I say: “I’m building topsoil” Saves on gas, too.