I hate to say this but I think I’m going to have to stop stop doing either keto or IF. The last couple of weeks I have been experiencing kidney pain. I experienced this during my adaptation period especially during my first 72 hour fast but it soon remedied itself after refeeding. It came back a couple times when I tried fasting longer than 23 hours but, again, it stopped after going to a 12 hour fast and a 2 meal a day routine. Weight loss was stalled after losing 65 lbs so I went back to doing a 23/1 OMAD protocol and was doing fine until my weight began to drop again. The kidney pain came back with a vengeance and has been getting worse despite going back to a 12 hour fast/2 meal a day routine. I also had a bad gout flare-up a few weeks ago that eventually went away but the kidney pain issue is beginning to worry me as it has become a chronic problem for me and is affecting my ability to perform at my job which is very physically demanding at times. It seems to hurt worse when I am exerting myself more physically which makes me think it may have something to do with the ketones since your body produces more ketones during physical activity. At this point it seems counterintuitive to think about having to stop doing keto/IF because it has helped me in so many ways (dropped close to 70 lbs and A1C down to 5.4 from diabetic levels) but I don’t want to risk doing permanent damage to my kidneys. My PCP is kind of on the fence about keto. At first she was very suspicious of the keto/IF lifestyle but then she told me to keep it up after my labs came back and showed an overall improvement in every category except for LDL. But when I went to her to treat my gout flare-up she gave me the whole “fats and proteins cause gout” speech. I kind of feel like she has been waiting for some issue to crop up with my Keto/IF lifestyle so she can say “See, I told you so!” so I have been hesitant to go see her about this issue of kidney pain which has cropped up from time to time but usually goes away after a few days. I figured I would post here in the hopes that someone who has experienced the same or similar issues could chime in and maybe offer some advice. I have been very strict with my diet and fasting regiment so I am thinking that maybe I should reintroduce just enough (healthy) carbs into my diet to throw me out of ketosis just to see if that doesn’t improve things. I have already modified my fasting routine which usually helps but the last week or so doesn’t seem to be helping. I am really at a loss as to what to do about this so I hope someone on here has some ideas.
Kidney Pain and Considering going off Keto/IF
Pretty sure. The pain is in the upper part of my lower back just above the “love handle” region. I have had lower back muscle pain before; this feels different.
How much protein do you eat daily? How much water do you drink? If you’ve had gout issues and now have kidney pain the last thing you should be doing is fasting. Fasting raises uric acid which can cause/inflame both of those.
I usually drink at least a gallon of water daily. On days I sweat a lot I will drink more. I don’t count grams or macros so it’s hard to give an exact amount of protein consumed daily. I drink BPC in the morning and I usually eat a couple of chicken thighs wrapped in bacon, a couple of eggs or maybe some smoked sausage for supper. I also eat a lot of kale and broccoli with butter coconut or and or HWC for added fats. Usually try to eat an avocado a day as well. Sometimes I will snack on pork rinds and sour cream dip before supper if I don’t have something already prepared. It was my understanding that both fasting and Keto can cause a rise in uric acid levels because ketones and uric acid both use the same pathways through the kidneys. I have read that many people on a keto/fasting regiment will experience a temporary rise in uric acid levels but that it remedies itself over time. I was hoping that would be the case with me but it looks like I’m going to have to make some changes either to my keto diet or my IF routine (maybe both). It’s really frustrating that fasting could be the culprit behind this as I feel as though it’s the driving force behind my weight loss so far.
Food sounds good, and although I’m a tracking crazy person (right now) I’m also very much for intuitive eating as I did it that way for years. Fasting is easy enough to rule it out if you decide to go that route. I’d obviously give it a week or so to help bring the levels back down. I was a fasting machine for a while but my body even seemed to get used to that and started barely producing results after doing a ton of them, even with descent breaks, I was doing 3-10 day fasts kinda at random. Used to get a couple lbs out of the way each fast, then it became a couple lbs down, then right back up a couple days later. Still made me feel awesome though. Now I’m trying some other stuff, I’m in the gym and lifting and got my fats down (still very much keto levels) and the proteins higher and for whatever reason I’m loosing again. I’m a big believer of just changing crap up. Gotta throw the metabolism constant curve balls.
Changing up my fasting routine has helped in the past but I’ve been eating two meals a day for a week or so and it hasn’t helped. I may need to eat more at feedings or have a healthy mid day snack to get more calories in. I’ve only been doing keto/fasting since April of this year and I’m down 70 lbs so it may be that my body needs time to adjust to this new weight before I try to lose any more. Now that I think about it; the kidney pain gets worse when I try to lose more weight. I’m not against tracking calories and maros but so far I haven’t felt it was necessary. I may have to reevaluate that attitude if fasting is going to cause me problems. I’ve been stalled for a few weeks. Weight loss slowed considerably after the first 50, all but stopped at 65 and the last five came off very gradually. I’ve attempted a 72 hour fast twice since the first one I did but had to break them early due to kidney pain and gout fare-ups. I do like the feeling of being in a fasted state and have come to hate the feeling of food in my stomach during the day when I am most active which is why I prefer OMAD as my default feeding protocol. I may consider doing a very low carb diet with a 20-4 or 19-5 feeding window but keto makes fasting so much more enjoyable. Sounds like you’ve got a pretty good idea with changing things up once your body has adapted. I may try doing that over the winter when things slow down around here and I’m not burning so many calories at work. Thanks for the feedback.
The reason I asked is because I have a lower back pain on both sides when I do IF. I reported it here thinking it is kidney related. I still not sure what is the cause.
However I learned later that the kidneys are higher than the where I feel the pain.
Then I thought it might be muscle strain but not sure yet.
What I know is that the intensity of the pain is going down with each fasting attempt but never goes away completely.
So I will be interested in this thread.
Have you been adding any lemon and/or acv to your daily routine? If not, it might be worth a shot.
1tbsp real fresh squeezed lemon juice(not bottle crap)+1tbsp acv diluted in a 500ml water bottle each day.
That sounds a lot like what I’ve been experiencing Omar. I am guessing the pain I’m experiencing is kidney pain as it’s right in that lower mid back upper low back area where the kidneys are. I began experiencing some relief today so I will probably not try not to do any longer than 12 hour fasts for a while. I hope you can figure out what’s causing the discomfort in your back. Keep us posted.
Hi Gary. Yes I do consume about 4-6 tbsp. of ACV a day and about two tablespoons of organic lemon juice daily. It helps with the gout and seems to have helped with the kidney pain as well in the past though not as much recently Thanks for the suggestion.
I know your doctor wasnt great aboutthe gout issue (do you see a rheumatologist? Isn’t gout autoimmune?) But you really should see an internist to rule out something serious going on with your kidneys.
Hi Anne. I have seen a rheumatologist but not regularly. (Yes, I believe gout is an auto immune disorder.) The body is basically reacting to the presence if uric acid crystals in your joints which is what causes gout attacks. I’m stubborn as an old mule when it comes to going to the doctor. I have to be pretty bad off to go see a doc outside of my normal appointments. I think the kidney pain is likely linked to fasting as Ifod14 suggested. I will mention it to my PCP during the next visit unless it gets worse.
Yeah. I used to be like that about going to the doctor, but after developing rheumatoid arthritis and needing to see a rheumy every 3 to 4 months, it feels like less of a bother to see my gp now!
About a year and a half ago I had a very bad ra flare which caused my right knee to swell very badly, and I recall my doc testing the fluid he extracted for uric acid. There wasn’t any, it was a plain old ra flare (I was on the wrong meds for me) but that’s why gout stuck in my brain as autoimmune.
Hi Lance! I hope extending your IF window continues to help. I have no background in anything helpful, but I have been doing Keto/carnivore successfully with one kidney and no problems. That was my docs only concern with keto, so she checks my Creatinine levels when I get my routine tests done (not often) and my levels continue to be good - even after 70+ pounds lost.
I will say that I had success with lchf 10 years ago, and then had the opportunity to donate one of my kidneys to a friend (she’s still doing great). However, the docs at the time would not let me donate if I was in ketosis, so I started adding back in limited carbs. Slippery slope is an understatement! The nephrectomy went really well, but over the next 12-18 months I gained back the 60 pounds I had lost before surgery. Not related to the kidney - totally related to the addition of carbs and the resulting inability to control, etc. I am SO glad to be back in the saddle and feel fantastic!
Good luck to you and I hope, hope, hope it is something easily addressed and not your kidneys!
I am sorry to hear that you suffer from arthritis. Not a fun thing to have to live with. I have arthritic symptoms that don’t always coincide with high uric acid levels but my blood work has come back as negative or borderline for RA. I’ve been having arthritic episodes since I was about 13 (some very severe) but wasn’t diagnosed with gout until I was in my mid twenties. I didn’t click very well with the rheumatologist that I was seeing so I just let my regular doc handle the treatment when I have a flare-up. Has being on keto helped ease your inflammation? That’s one of the reasons I decided to try the ketogenic diet; for its anti-inflammatory benefits.
Hi and thanks! What a wonderful and selfless thing to do for your friend. She’s very fortunate to have someone like you in her life. Congratulation on having been able to get back in the saddle and lose the weight again. That must have been rough having to go back to eating carbs after having such great success on a lchf diet. I would be really bummed if something happened that made me have to go off keto. It’s disappointing to not be able to do longer fasts but I think I will stay on keto and wait a few weeks (or months) before trying to do longer fasts.
Um. I find my energy is better when I’m eating keto, or at least grain free, but I have celiacs as well so I’m always and forever gluten free!
For me? Methotrexate (a disease modifying anti rheumatic drug which has been used for ra since I think the 1960s with great success) is what helps with my arthritis! I was on other meds for about a year after diagnosis, had a terrible flare, switched to methotrexate and have been on that about a year and a half. And I’m in clinical remission, meaning my bloodwork is good and theres no sign of major inflammation in my joints.
Many people with RA are “seronegative” meaning their rheumatoid factor and/or anti-ccp titre are negative. They still have the disease, and need treatment! I’m sero-positive, my bloodwork was totally conclusive, and I was diagnosed under 30, both of which predict a more aggressive disease progression.
However, when RA is diagnosed early and treated aggressively, that’s when you can get into remission/a lack of disease activity.
If you’re bloodwork seemed like it could indicate RA I would urge you to see another rheumatologist. Because for most people RA is not something which can be controlled with diet. Medication is required to prevent serious joint and bone damage, as well as possible heart issues and a heightened risk of lymphoma.
You folks with RA (and everyone else) need to check out Mikhaila Peterson’s blog. http://mikhailapeterson.com/
I would at least give carnivore a shot for a month and see what happens.